M = Media
N = News
RS = Radio Session
TV = Television Appearance
The Stone Roses = Release

The Mill - 1984 - Ian Brown & Andy Couzens audition and rehearse with The Mill, The Mill, Ashton-Under-Lyne, Guide Bridge
Notes: Ian Brown & Andy Couzens audition for the band The Mill. They rehearsed a few times but left to form their own group. The band consisted of Clint Boon (soon to be Inspiral Carpets organ player and co-songwriter), Gary 'Mani' Mounfield on bass guitar (former The Waterfront bass player) & Chris Goodwin (former The Waterfront drummer and later to be The High's drummer). Chris would also audition for The Stone Roses too.
Taken from'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: ''1984, Brown and Couzens did make one famous trip up to Clint Boon’s rehearsal space in Ashton called The Mill to have a jam with Boon’s pre-Inspiral Carpets outfit named The Mill (or T’Mill depending on which day of the week you asked him). This was also the mill that a young Noel Gallagher would trek up to a few years later for his Inspiral Carpets vocalist audition.'' The Mill, who were a three piece of Boon, Mani on bass or guitar and Chris Goodwin on drums, were recording semi-psychedelic jams with metal percussion and noise – “a bit like Einsturzende Neubauten” grins Boon years later (who also recalls Brown and Couzens turning up in Couzens’ “big American car” . The five of them bundled into the rehearsal room cum homemade recording studio and attempted to create some magic, but the group, who were a Manchester supergroup ten years too early, failed to ignite, with Ian finding the music uninteresting, pretending that he had never sung before, making his excuses and getting out of there.'
Chris Goodwin said: “Ian [Brown] and Andy [Couzens] came down to The Mill rehearsal when Mani, myself and Clint throwing bottles at forklift trucks,” “But Ian took one look at us and he went, ‘Yeah, no thanks. See ya next week.’” “That was another meeting with Brown that didn’t go too well....”

* Geno Washington Live Date ?July? Manchester ?

February 1984 - Ian Brown hosts Michelle's 21st birthday party, Top Floor Flat, Charles Barry Building, Hulme, Manchester
Notes: Unconfirmed if it was a 'joint' party with Michelle (‘Mitch’) Davitt, Ian Brown's partner. Michelle would later work on the set of Brookside.
Ian Brown meets Geno Washington. Geno came down with a friend of Ian's who was part of Geno's road crew.
The same night Woody, bass player for the band 'The Worst', stayed at Ian's flat.
From 01 March 1995 -'The Face Magazine' Issue 78, March 95: The last time I see Ian Brown, he is drinking rum and talking about Marvin Gaye and his “humongously massive soul”. Suddenly, he leans over: “I’m going to tell you something I’ve never told anyone before,” he says. “I went to this party in Hulme once and a mate of mine had come to the party with Geno Washington. Yeah, the Geno Washington, who’d been playing this gig at the university. And Geno came up to me and said to me: ‘You’re a star man, get in a band and go for it. You’re a star.’ And that’s the only reason I’m here now, because Geno Washington told me at a party to go and fookin’ do it. I’d never thought of doing a band until that.” Ian Brown, kung fu guru, (nearly) teetotal rock star, sussed dad and white soul man, rises to go to bed. “God bless you my son,” he gently whispers in my ear. It might have been friendly; it might have been pity...''
From 1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: Do you remember a Manchester punk band called the Worst? IB: I knew their bass player, Woody! He slept at my house one night. He’s ripped me curtains down ‘cos he’s cold but when I go in in the morning, he’s leaned up against the wall and the bed has burnt right round his body like a silhouette where he fell asleep with a cigarette, and the mattress has melted and it’s smouldering. And he was fine! That’s was the same night I met Geno Washington, when he told me I should be a singer. That was ’83.
RC: How did you meet Geno? IB: My girlfriend was having a party in Hulme. I had a friend who worked at Salford University who was in his road crew and he brought him down. Geno was like, you’re a star, laughing at me, go do the thing. I’d never heard of him apart from that "Geno" song. John was asking me to be a singer at the same time and I wasn’t interested but now I was, like, OK....
Taken from ‘the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: It was around this time that Ian Brown was living in Hulme in the now-demolished legendary council flats near Manchester city centre that were rent-free because the council were too ashamed to grab the money because of the condition they were in. The area was rough and chaotic and full of students, junkies, dealers and arty bohemian types in what was arguably Europe’s biggest squat area. One night Brown was having his 21st birthday party in the crescent when there was a knock on the door and one of Brown’s mates, Glue bag Glen, who had been to see Geno Washington play a gig in town, had brought the singer back to the party. Washington was instantly taken with Brown and declared him to be 'a star' and when the pair went to the Reno club in Moss Side to score some weed, he kept telling Brown to be in a band; “You’re a star, everyone loves you” he kept telling the charismatic young Brown.
At first Ian was laughing it off, but something must have stuck from the soul singer’s proclamation because within a month he got back in touch with John Squire and the pair of them talked of getting band back together, as Brown himself remembers. “So, it was Geno Washington who had sowed the seed. I said to John what had happened at the party and he said, 'Why don’t we give it a go?’''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Ian Brown said: I was in William Kent till 1984 and in Charles Barry Crescent in early 84. When I first moved into Hulme the families were still living there. You would get a house full of junkie rich kids from Alderley Edge living next to a bus driver with his family. It was them kids who brought the drugs into Moss Side- the class A’s and the heroine- not the people who lived there with their regular lives. It was all weed in Moss Side before that, I was at 313 and I remember the Fall’s drummer Karl Burns was at 316....So I had moved to Hulme. It was well handy for town. We used to go to the Berlin club and places like that. Later on we went to Deville’s and then the Ritz (Probably the oldest surviving club in Manchester on Whitworth St with its sprung dance floor it still retains the feel of a classic old school venue/club. Great place) on a Monday. This was before the Hacienda- John Gannon the DJ is still there? fucking hell! honestly! (Longest running DJ in Manchester Gannon has been packing them in at the Ritz and Rockworld for more than quarter of a century). I was just hanging out with no ambition to do music. I was seeing a lot of bands. I did see bands like The Meteors and King Kurt, I was not massive into them, I knew kids that dressed like them- I didn’t dress like that though. Ian Brown said: It was Michelle, my girlfriends 21st- the mother of my two eldest- birthday party. Gluebag Glen brought Geno Washington and his bands back to the party in Hulme. I had never heard of Geno Washington at the time, to me he was just this dead cool old black guy who kept telling me that I was a star. He was saying ''look how everyone loves you, look how popular you are. You’re a star. You should be a singer!'' He then said ''Where can I get a spliff?’ so I took him to the Reno club in Moss Side and stood outside whilst he got a spliff. I always remember him smoking the spliff in the street and this copper coming up and saying what the fuck are you doing? And he said 'I’m Geno Washington, I can do whatever I like!'' and carried on smoking the spliff. I thought that was so cool and the cop said ''go back in there and smoke it'' and didn’t even bust him! ''So, he kept going on all night- ''hey man you’re a star, you should be a singer man, look at how the people like you,’ and I said ''it’s our party, these are my friends! that’s why they like me! It was Geno Washington who had sewed the seed. I told John what had happened at the party and he said why don’t we give it a go. The Waterfront had now finished. He was still playing is guitar on his own all the time. You would go round and he always had his guitar round his neck. He would be playing it always- watching telly or walking around, making a brew with the kettle and a guitar round his neck.''
From February 1998 - Uncut magazine Ian Brown interview: “Anyway, later I’m at this party in Hulme… my mate’s roadie-ing at Salford University, and he brings Geno Washington down to this party. An’ he’s a superstar kind of guy, big personality, all over the room. He comes up to me and he says ‘You’re a star. You’re an actor. Be a singer.’ I remember him on the street smoking a big spliff and this copper comes round sayin’ ‘What are you doing?’. And he’s blowing his spliff in the copper’s face, this is ’83. And he’s goin’ ‘I’m Geno, man. GENO GENO!”, singing the Dexy’s song, really cool. And the copper didn’t do nothing, he just walked away. A few weeks later, I’m thinking about what this guy said. What does he mean I’m a star, an actor? Anyway, I thought we’d give it a go so we kicked Kaiser out and started the real thing, The Stone Roses, in March ’84.”
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Interview with Geno Washington - Soul sensation and life coach: I was doing a gig at Manchester University. We were staying over the night and I just didn’t just want to go back to the hotel straight away, you know how that is. I was signing some autographs in the back and someone was telling me about this party that was going on, would I like to come? I said, yeah, man. I went to the party and I didn’t really know anybody. I’m in there and the party was jumping but I really wanted a joint instead of just drinking the booze. A nice joint would have made it super good for me, I would have been quite happy. I got to talking to a bunch over in the corner which was Ian Brown and another couple of guys standing in the corner bullshitting and everything. So, I joined them and I got into bullshitting and everything. Then I kept seeing these girls looking at Ian. They’re coming up and talking to him. They all liked him. But Ian’s just a normal guy; he’s not in show business. He’s laughing with the girls, saying, hey, hi, how’s it going, but he isn’t trying to pull, he’s just over here talking with his mates. So, I said to him, yeah, looks like you got a lot of action going on. He said, nah, man, I’m just hanging around. So, I said, hey look, just to make this shit great, have you got any friends that could bring over some smoke? I’ll pay for the shit y’know. He said, Yeah, I got some friends, I’ll give them a call. He’ll be over here right away. I said, really? He said, Yeah, man. So, he called up his friend and this friend came over about 20 minutes later. He had some good shit too. So, I was on the good foot, I felt like I had had more glide in my stride, I had some loot in my flute. So, Ian had done this favour for me. And when someone is nice to me, kind to me, I try and give them something back if I can. I’m standing with the guy, I’m feeling high now, really good, got my mojo going and everything, and here’s a guy; he’s got great personality, got the looks, girls are going crazy over him and of course he’s ignoring them but they’re going crazy over him.
So, I said, look man, you ought to be a pop star, you ought to go into the pop business. I said, you sing? He said, no, I don’t sing. I said do you write songs? He said, no, I don’t write songs either. Goddamn, I said, look when you was in school did you write poetry or some kind of shit like that? He said, Yeah, I wrote a little bit of poetry. I said, well look, listen, because I’m being very serious with you now. Ian, if you write poetry that’s only one inch from writing songs. If you can write poetry baby, you can write songs and that’s where the pie is in the music business. Now, you’ve got the looks, you got the personality, all you need to do is learn how to sing and write your own goddamn songs and you going to be cooking with gas, man. He looked at me and said, really? You think so? I said, I’m telling you the truth. I’m not bullshitting you. You went and got me the joint and all that so I’m trying to help you and tell you a secret that you don’t really know that you have. You go the looks, you got the personality, people love you, you’re like a goddamn magnet. All you got to do is start writing your poems again and then move it songs, just move the shit to songs. You can write songs, get in a band, right… All you have to do is remember when you start off, you’re going to be shit but just think you’re only warming up. Everybody starts off they will be shit. Then the more you do it the more you improve. You got it in your hand, man, do this. Do it for yourself, Ian. He said, Yeah, I’ll look into it. I think I’ll look into it. Okay, I didn’t see Ian no more until about, hell, almost 20 years later, and Ian Brown is the lead singer of The Stone Roses. That motherfucker is more famous than me.
I’m a life coach, hypnotist, anyway… and I was very pleased that he took my advice because I was very serious when I was talking to him. He was very, very interested. He was actually listening. I took him away from his friends, I took him over to another corner and was talking to him seriously, telling him he could do this. It was the same with me. I had the personality, was a dancing fool but I didn’t never think about singing, nothing like that. And boom, I jumped into singing with English groups, singing in pubs and the more you do it the better you get.
23 May 2006 09:41 - The Daily Mail article by Piers Hernu: "It was 1983 and I was at somebody's 21st birthday party in Manchester when suddenly in walks Geno Washington, the guy Dexy's Midnight Runners sang about in Geno. We got talking and he told me he thought I had star quality and that I should start singing immediately. "In those days in Manchester, being a singer was thought of as effeminate, but my friend John Squire had been asking me to sing for his band for months so I suddenly thought why not? I suppose Geno spotted something in me that I hadn't even spotted myself."

March 1984 - The Stone Roses are formed.
Ian George Brown - Vocals
John 'Johnny' Thomas Squire - Lead Guitar
Andy Couzens - Vocals & Rhythm Guitar
Simon Wolstencroft - Drums
Peter Garner - Bass Guitar
Notes: Conflicting dates with October 1983. Ian Brown & John Squire form The Stone Roses.
Sarah Gainham published a book in 1958 titled 'The Stone Roses', I do not think the band have ever referenced the book to the band’s name though.
Peter Garner was working at Paperchase, Simon Wolstencroft was working in a fish shop in Altrincham, John for Cosgrove Hall and Ian was working odd jobs around Manchester.
From May 1990 - Sky Magazine, Jon Wilde article: ...Angry Young Teddy Bears. The Stone Roses was the title of a 50s pulp thriller that Brown, appropriately, found in a dustbin...
Simon Spence's Unused Chapter from his Book 'War & Peace' noted: It is late 1983. The Roses have just formed and their image is still, at best, ill defined. Each member looks like they belong to a different band from a different era. Vest tops, roll necks, paisley shirts, leather waistcoats, cardigans, suede jackets, berets, ruffle shirts, bandanas… and tight-legged trousers.''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Ian Brown ''We started getting the band together. I rung Pete up to see if he was up for it. He had not been into the scooter scene so I had not seen him for a couple of years. I said Pete 'do you want to play bass in this band?' and he was up for it. At the time John didn’t want Andy Couzens to be in the band- he said he’s different to us, he’s a rich kid. I said he’s got the van, the drum kit, and the amps. I remember John saying we got to get it right as it is, we can’t have Andy in it but I said we got to have him in.''
From Debris Magazine 1988 Interview: John; “Maybe it's the name. It's a shit name, but I thought it would fit a group with really poppy songs but a bit of dirt and noise as well."
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Did John come up with the name? For a long time, we didn’t have a name. Every week when we’d get together to rehearse it was like has anyone come up with a name. Things got suggest and rejected… and it dragged on for ages to the point where John went oh, I think I’ve got a name, I was thinking of The Stone Roses… and we went yeah that’ll do, just because it wasn’t shit. The book thing, he didn’t get it from that, he chose it because he picked two words that were hard and soft… we said, what does it mean, he said it doesn’t mean anything it’s hard and soft which is sort of what we are. Then he found that book in a charity shop in Chorlton and going round to his flat and him going, check this out, and me going no fucking way… the book was just a mad coincidence.
From the NME magazine article 12 November 1988: ''On the band name John said 'The name was a contradiction - something hard and something pretty; something noisy but tuneful' Ian 'It was meant to be happy, not gothy' 'When we did our first gig there loads of people there with black and webs. They were really disappointed to find us come on in uniform black and white shirts like The Beach Boys and have cropped hair...'
From November 1998 - Total Guitar Magazine, John Squire said: "The original idea was to include art and wild sounds with attractive melodies. We chose the name Stone Roses because it reflected this contradiction."...
From 27 September 2013 - Andy Couzens interview: How did you first get to know Ian, John, Pete and Reni? ''Pete was a part of a gang that used to hang round where Ian and John lived in Timperley. Reni came along later in response to an advert we put up in a music shop in town.''
'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com, Ian Brown said: 'The Waterfront had now finished but he was still playing his guitar on his own all the time. You would go round and he always had his guitar round his neck. He would be playing it always, watching telly or walking around, making a brew with the kettle with a guitar round his neck. Me and John were still sort of mates even though we had not seen each other properly for a year. We were leading different lives, but we said, let’s get this band thing going''
Taken from ‘The early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: 'Both of them agreed to get Pete Garner in on bass even though he couldn’t play, but they innately understood that bands are gangs and the affable Garner was everyone’s mate, because he was working in town at the key Paperchase record shop and knew all the new young faces in town including Johnny Marr (who he shared a bus ride home from work with). He also vaguely knew the pre-Smiths Morrissey, who he had chatted about the New York Dolls with. Despite John’s reservations they got Andy Couzens in on guitar and Si Wolstencroft in on drums. “It was like getting The Patrol back together,'' laughs Brown, who had moved from bass to vocals. The band, installed with an unlikely work ethic, began to rehearse hard in early 1984, and I remember them moving in next door to where my band The Membranes were rehearsing in South Manchester, and we became friends...''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Johnny Marr: When I was working at Aladdin’s Cave on the ground floor of the Arndale (in those pre-Affleck’s Palace days a real hive of alternative culture was in the underground market below Affleck’s which was noted for 'Bowie bootleg tapes and Tuukka boots’ amongst other things) I used to get the bus with Pete in the mornings and each night. He became a really good mate. He could see the way I was dressing and all of that and was interested. I really liked this guy. I remember we were getting the 99 back to Wythenshawe one night and he was trying to come up with a name for his band that he had just started in. He knew I was a Stones freak. He got off a few stops after me saying the name has got to be as good as the Rolling Stones. When I got home and the phone goes five minutes later and it was Pete and he says ''I’ve been talking about it-what about the Stone Roses’ and I said naah! that’s too obvious Pete!’...I got Pete into a lot of that stuff although I think he was already into the Dolls. Pete lived between me and my girlfriend. He was this great guy. There wasn’t many of them around, it was one of those rare things of someone who wants to be in a band. He was working in the original Paperchase. I was in there all the time. He had dead long hair and he would talk through his hair all the time. That was around the time I had started rehearsing with the Smiths.
23 September 2005 Friday 23:59 - The Guardian Newspaper article, by Simon Hattenstone, Interview by Simon in a Milkshake bar in West London: The band had become so different to what they'd set out to be. He tells me why they chose the name Stone Roses. "We wanted something that said we were hard but we were beautiful and John came up with Stone Roses. Hard but beautiful, like a typical northerner. And it's something lasts for ever, a stone rose."

20 February 1984 - Ian Brown's 21st birthday

1984 - Johnny Marr approached Ian Brown to form a band.
Notes: From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Ian Brown said: ''The Smiths had come out of Manchester that year and were now big. I used to go to parties with Andy Rourke and everyone knew Johnny Marr because he used to run round the pubs telling everyone he’s going to be number one and a year later he was!''
Johnny Marr said: ''People always say I did that but I swear I didn’t! When I was putting Freaky Party together, I got really tempted to really go and personally talk to Ian Brown and say ''listen- come and be in our band. I knew Ian Brown through Pete (Garner) and also Si our drummer had gone to school with him. We had met a couple of times. We had that kind of respectful rivalry. I knew John Squire better. We were checking each other out like you do- we would talk about records and there was an unsaid understanding that Ian and john were an item- so that’s what stopped me asking Ian. I always respected and liked John and they had a real good understanding of each other- me and Andy were like that and me and Morrissey were as well in a different kind of way.
Ian Brown said: Johnny Marr is a great bloke, proper, really into music. He was only 23 when the Smiths split and we were 25 when we did our first album. We might have looked 19, I thought if we don’t do it this year, we will never do it. We did love The Smiths music and the fact that they had come out of the Manchester area and made it really gee’d us up. I got all the early Smiths tapes because Pete lived opposite Melanie who was going out with Andy Rourke at the time and she gave Pete all the tapes of them rehearsing. I thought the first album was a bit disappointing not produced good but 'This Charming Man' was a great pop tune...Morrissey was great pop star because he was so unlikely with his national health glasses on- no way could he be a normal pop star! He was clever as fuck and his interviews were funny as fuck. That was inspiring to us to see someone making it who was like yourselves- not that Morrissey was that much like us!
Pete Garner ''I liked the Smiths as people. When I was about younger, I had met this kid who was into punk because we both got the same bus home from work and that turned out to be Johnny Marr. I was impressed because he liked the Heartbreakers. I had just bought the ''Live At Max’s Kansas City’ (classic Velvet Underground live album recorded in 1970 and released a couple of years later) album and I went round to his house. I knew him from those times and he worked at X Clothes and I worked at Paperchase in town...Andy Rourke used to go out with girl who lived opposite me- so I got to know all them. Johnny Marr and Mike Joyce were brilliant guys. I had already met Morrissey at Paper chase (cool alternative book and record shop managed by Pete- he was the first person your author got to know in Manchester because he would take my fanzine, 'Rox and sell it) where I worked when I was 16. He came up to the counter and said” can you still get lyrics from the first Dolls album?’ and I said ''you’ve got to be kidding!'' He walks off and then a few months later he does that New York Dolls book (” the New York Dolls’ by Morrissey on Babylon books, is as you would expect a fantastic account of one of the greatest rock n roll bands ever- full of barbed wit and fierce rhetoric, it’s one of the great rock n roll books which remains curiously undiscovered)) which I had to have being a massive Dolls fan.''

March 1984 - Andy Couzens House, Rehearsal, Macclesfield
Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit)
Notes: Ian wrote the lyrics.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Ian Brown ''Me and John were still sort of mates even though we had not seen each other properly for a year because we were leading different lives, but we said let’s get this band thing going so we met up and we wrote this tune ‘Nowhere Fast’ a song about our attitude that you don’t have to go to work, its punk rock! no fucker is gonna tell us what to do. By then I’d had a few shit jobs and now I was on the dole and that was it. I was never working for no-one again. You soon adapt to living on beans on toast. To make money you do the odd insurance job- you had your record player nicked- that sort of thing- mind you in Hulme you would get burgled all the time anyway.''
Andy Couzens said: The first rehearsal was actually at my parent’s house. We wrote a song that night- ''Nowhere Fast'' it had another title then; I can’t remember what the name was now. John had a bit of a riff and Si started drumming. We just worked on new stuff, there was no Patrol or Waterfront songs. It was a total clean break. We rehearsed a lot- a few times a week. I was still at my parent’s place.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: We rehearsed quite a few different places but we rehearsed in Andy’s cellar for a while. He’s the only one who had a big house, huge house. No, he didn’t have a swimming pool, full size snooker table, which was a wow… it was free, we could leave all the gear set up and the house was big enough we could play and not disturb his parents…

1984 - Ian Brown went for singing lessons with Mrs Rhodes over Victoria Station, Manchester
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: Then you formed the Roses? IB: Yeah, we started a few rehearsals and everyone’s like, fuck, we can’t put up with that. You’ll have to have singing lessons. So I went to this old woman over Victoria Station, Mrs Rhodes. She’d get me there at six o’clock, open the window, with everyone coming home from work. She’d have me wailing "After the Goldrush" or "Strawberry Fields" out the window. The crowds looking up and she’s saying, if you can’t do it, go home. So I thought, fuck it, I’ll stick it out. So I did three weeks with her. She had an 80-year-old dear on the piano!
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: And Ian went for singing lessons? He went for two or something. Have you seen the Sex Pistols film, Great Rock N Roll Swindle, when they do the music teacher who taught Johnny rotten to sing… McLaren sent him once or twice … so it’s gone down in myth he had singing lessons. It was a bit like that, Ian probably went to get taught how to breathe and stuff but it was something and nothing.
March 2000 - Jockey Slut Magazine includes a Ian Brown Q&A Session: Did you really see a vocal coach after Reading? Stephen Smith, Bradford. "No. I had a vocal coach when I first started. The first rehearsal I did in '84 the lads were like (grimaces), 'Woah, you're going to have to do something about that'. So I went to see this old lady near Victoria Station in Manchester. I was doing Neil Young tunes, 'Strawberry Fields', but she'd have me doing it at six o'clock at night when everyone was coming home from work. She used to make me stand by the window with the window open singing away and everybody would be looking up at me. She'd say, 'If you can't do it now you won't be able to do it any other time'. So it did me good, but I only went to three lessons in '84."

March 1984 - Andy Couzens House, Rehearsal, Macclesfield
Tradjic Roundabout (Tragic Roundabout) / Mission Impossible
Notes: Ian wrote the lyrics for all the bands early songs, all the way up until (and including) Sally Cinnamon.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: Do you recall any early songs? IB: "Tragic Roundabout". The lyrics were good, about Martin Luther King. "Heart On The Staves". They were all sort of furious. They had some kind of passion.

March 1984 - Rehearsals, Manchester
Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / Mission Impossible / Tradjic Roundabout
Notes: The Stone Roses start writing songs together, Ian brings the lyrics to rehearsal sessions.
From 27 September 2013 - Andy Couzens interview: ''Tell us about the Garage Flower songs. This album represented our first set, with the first song we ever wrote together as the Roses, namely Just A Little Bit (originally called Nowhere Fast), followed by Mission Impossible and Tradjic Roundabout. These were pre-Reni, although obviously he's on these recordings. ''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Peter Garner ''The first rehearsal was February/March 1984 and the first song we did was 'Nowhere Fast'. This is with Si (Wolstencroft) who was now our drummer.'' Andy Couzens ''I always thought there was something about Pete. He’s just a great bloke Pete, someone who is great to have around. Whether he could play or not was irrelevant. The fact was he was great to have around, it added to the thing. John came in the end, getting John in was almost like a default- he was like ''oh fuck it go on then...''. It just felt right John said he would only do it if Pete’s in the band. It just ended up getting The Patrol back together- the big reformation.''

April 1984 - The Boardwalk, Rehearsal Rooms, Manchester
Notes: The venue and rehearsal rooms had only just opened, Little Peter Street. The rehearsal rooms were based in the cellar. The venue was a converted school house, which was next door to where Joy Division used to rehearse in the city centre.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Pete Garner said: You’ve got to remember that the only bass line I knew was The Sweet’s ‘Blockbuster’. I couldn’t play bass at all and I had only played that once at that Patrol gig. I think it was a case of ''always get your mate in on bass.'' At our first rehearsal everyone strapped on guitars and I was thinking ''what the fuck do I do!'' In the next few months, we rehearsed everywhere. We even did the Boardwalk once and never went back because the room was shit. Later on, we rehearsed at the Chorlton Lock Up which had something to do with Spirit rehearsal studios. (This is where I met the band, my band The Membranes had just to Manchester from Blackpool and we were rehearsing next door to them. The other band in the rooms was Carmel.)
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: I remember Ian telling me he’d see the Stranglers and I was jealous. The reason I ended up being a bass player was because of Jean-Jacques Burnel, because I love his bass playing. I don’t think they were the best band in the world but that was the best bass sound I’d ever heard.

April 1984 - Simon Wolstencroft leaves the band.
Notes: Simon left to join The Colourfield (formed by Terry Hall in Manchester, ex-Specials singer). Simon also went on to drum for an early Smiths line-up before joining The Fall. The band auditioned Howard Daniels, the drummer from Yorkshire goth band The Skeletal Family but he did not join the band.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Andy Couzens: Si had left to join the Smiths when they started up. So, we started auditioning drummers. I put an advert up in A1 music in town... the drummer from the Skeletal family came down but that didn’t work out. We rehearsed for ages with no drums at all which is ridiculous when you think about it- you’d get a drum machine now...
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Andy said when Si joined the Colourfield, he felt abandoned? I didn’t see it like that and I don’t think Ian and John saw it like that. We got the Patrol back together, I was in the band, Ian was singing, we were all mates, we were rehearsing it was great fun… and then Si was obviously looking for work… all we’re doing is rehearsing, we’re not doing any gigs…. I can’t play so I’m learning what I can and then Si gets a sniff of some work, it’s the Colourfield, wea ll love the Specials. So, I remember at the time going good luck to you man. I remember him listening to their stuff and learning it… it didn’t seem like the abandonment thing… Andy’s got a totally different outlook…

10 April 1984 - Reni's 20th birthday

1984 - Chris Goodwin Audition
Notes: Chris (former The Waterfront drummer) came down to hear what the band was doing but he was not interested. He was already in T'Mill but was looking for another originals band, who he found in T’Challa grid and later Asia Fields. Chris was drumming in a covers band formerley called 'Weakstones Bridge', at the time known as 'Exit'. Chris and Andy would later re-unite for Buzzcocks F.O.C. and then for form The High.
Chris said: “I did go back again but the songs were too heavy compared to what I was into. I was more into the Waterfront stuff, Orange Juice-y, Postcard Records type stuff. They went off to do more heavy stuff. Not goth but…..”
Andy Couzens said: ''I had got Chris Goodwin in on drums initially. He came down for one rehearsal and left his kit in the cellar. It was like he was just looking for somewhere to store it.''

25 April 1984 - Clint Boon & Mani see R.E.M. play live at The Gallery in Manchester
Notes: Blackpool musician and writer John Robb met Mani here for the first.

May 1984 - Andy Couzens House, Rehearsal, Macclesfield
Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / All Stitched Up / I Can’t Take I Anymore / Mission Impossible / Tragic Roundabout / Coming Of Age
Notes: Rehearsals without a drummer. All Stitched Up was also known as ''All Stripped Down'', the song was performed at their debut 1984 London show. This song has never appeared on any bootlegs and it's existence is only known through the John Robb biography and Pete Garner's mention of it in the book "The Stone Roses War and Peace" by Simon Spence. All Stripped Down could be another name for All Stitched Up.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: Weren’t you called English Rose for a while, after the Jam song? IB: No, I don’t know where that’s come from. John thought up the name "Stone Roses" – something with a contrast, two words that went against each other.
From February 1998 - Uncut magazine Ian Brown interview: There’s a story that we were called English Rose, but that’s untrue.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: English Rose? Same again… we all liked the Jam so that’s where they got that from but I think that was from the Waterfront period… we were never called that as the Roses…We rehearsed quite a few different places but we rehearsed in Andy’s cellar for a while. He’s the only one who had a big house, huge house. No, he didn’t have a swimming pool, full size snooker table, which was a wow… it was free, we could leave all the gear set up and the house was big enough we could play and not disturb his parents… The early songs, …Certainly the music is purely John. Andy will quibble. It’s easy for me, I didn’t write any of it. As far as I was concerned, I was just learning to play this beast I had round my neck. We started rehearsing, we’d look to John who’d worked something out at home, and he played that and we’d work that up, play it over and over. The next rehearsal John would have another riff. I’m not saying Andy didn’t do anything but, in my mind, it was nearly all John. He co-wrote the lyrics with Ian, they sat and wrote the lyrics together. But it’s nearly all John at that point, the creative input for the music… which it was in The Patrol really, so really it was just like an extension of The Patrol but Ian was the singer rather than Andy...That lasted a month in the set and we didn’t continue with it. There’s a few like
that…
23 May 2006 09:41 - The Daily Mail Ian Brown Interview, article by Piers Hernu: He pauses for a moment. "I'd mentioned Strangeways' tower in one of our early Roses songs because it's such a menacing feature of Manchester's skyline. I always used to wonder what it was like inside. When I got to find out, I thought, 'Now why the f*** did you wonder that?'

1984 - Ian & John visit Corbieres Wine Cavern, Manchester
Notes: 23 May 2006 09:41 - The Daily Mail article by Piers Hernu: It was during the next few formative months, when Brown was finding his feet as a singer, that he and Squire would frequent Corbieres Wine Cavern in Manchester, taking turns to play their favourite tracks on its jukebox. 'We always used to buy each other a box of Maltesers at Christmas...' "Corbieres was famous for having the best jukebox in town and I believe it still has. We'd hang out there with other new Manchester bands like The Happy Mondays and listen to classic songs. Ever since then I've always fancied owning one, but it's one of those things I haven't got round to buying... yet!"
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: I heard the Happy Mondays used to kick your scooter over! IB: We used to go to the beehive in Eccles and the scooter boys used to fight with the lads from that area – where the Mondays were from, Swinton. So yeah, we used to fight them every week. Years later, we laughed about it.

June 1984 - Alan 'Reni' Wren replied to an advert that Andy put up in A1 Music Store in Manchester.
Notes: Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: ''They set up an audition and went round to pick up the young drummer, who apparently answered the door of his Gorton house in his moon boots and not much else, and his extrovert nature caught the quieter Roses on the hop. On the tape of Reni’s first rehearsal, you can hear Reni’s exuberant enthusiasm in the rehearsal room as he introduces himself to the band before getting behind the kit to play along to Tragic Roundabout’, instantly turning the song into a Roses song.''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Pete Garner: Chris Goodwin hadn’t really been into being the drummer. He thought we were too rock at the time! And now Si had left. We were still writing songs with no drummer. Then the Skeletal Family drummer turned up and he was doing lots of toms, doing all this tribal shit! He said ''I can’t hear the tune” and we said ''play a straight beat mate.’...We put more ads up for a drummer and waited. It was the poster we put in A1 that Reni saw, He has told me since that it looked like there was something about it. It was a simple poster with list of influences on it and said” the Stone Roses require a drummer’- even though no-one had ever heard of us at the time we put the band’s name on it!

June 1984 - Reni is living in Gorton.

1984 - Decibel Rehearsal Rooms, Decibel Studios, Beehive Mill, Manchester
Tradjic Roundabout / Tradjic Roundabout / Tradjic Roundabout
Notes: Reni's debut audition. The audition / rehearsal was recorded. Apparently a 100 cassette copies were made with artwork provided by John. The tape included various takes of Tradjic Roundabout with in-between band chatter included too. Decibel Studios was used by The Smiths for recording some of their early demos.
Every Decibel Rehearsal required Reni and the band carry his drum kit and the gear up three flights of stairs.
Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: ''On the tape of Reni’s first rehearsal, you can hear Reni’s exuberant enthusiasm in the rehearsal room as he introduces himself to the band before getting behind the kit to play along to Tragic Roundabout’, instantly turning the song into a Roses song.''
John Robb responded to a stone roses article on Louder Than War regarding the tape, saying "johnrobb August 1, 2019 At 10:41 - I do still have the cassette of the audition/rehearsal but it’s not mine to put onto youtube…""
07 January 2018 - thestoneroses.co.uk published an interview with Matt Mead Notes: ''We interview Matt Mead, who is currently writing the book Flowered Up and who recently was able to share a short clip from The Stone Roses Elephant Stone recording sessions. You’re a huge Roses collector and i know you’re not able to share some of the items you have or have come across, but what are you top 3 rare items that you have seen/have access too? Reni’s first rehearsal. This is the very first time Reni rehearses with the band. Not a great sound to the recording but historic all the same.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book:
Andy Couzens said: The first time Reni rehearsed with us was in Decibel studios. We were booked it to rehearse with Reni specially. Reni rang up- he denies it now but he called himself Renee on the phone! Me and Ian went to pick him up. We knocked on this door in Gorton and Reni came to the door. I seem to remember he looked mad! he had a big long coat on and big furry moon boots- a pair of them awful stretch denim jeans, his dress sense was fucking terrible! We were a bit shocked! We put all his kit in the car and went back to the rehearsal room...Yeah! it was weird. We loaded his gear into the car and went to the rehearsal room. We took the gear up three flights of stairs and he started playing. He was mad as a hatter. He played like Keith Moon, amazing. All those little things that he can do like double hits, unbelievable stuff, so fluent and no effort. He could actually do all that, amazing. We wanted him in he was that fucking good but we weren’t sure if he was going to have it! We weren’t that good at all; we were still pretty rough. He told me a while later that the thing that really struck was how much we believed in ourselves- the sense of belief that he got from us all. His best friend, Simon Wright, had been in Manchester rock band called Tora Tora before joining AC/DC. If he hadn’t had joined us, he would have ended up as a jobbing musician. There was deathly silence and someone said are you up for it or what Reni? He joined us that night.
Pete Garner said: 'Tragic Roundabout’ was the first song we played to Reni. He’d played in loads of bands before- his mate, Simon Wright, had joined AC/DC. We saw them on TV and Reni said there’s my mate. Simon Wright- he was older than Reni and had showed him some stuff. Reni’s mum and dad ran a pub with a drum kit set up for bands in the pub. After school Reni would play the kit. When he joined us, he was already in two other bands. He was checking out who was the best bet- I’m not definite about this. He thought we looked interesting and there was something going on, we had something! When he started playing on ‘Tragic Roundabout’ it was incredible. We definitely had something then! We never discussed it. We knew he was in. He was fucking amazing! what a drummer...With the best drummer of his generation in the band the Roses were ready to go out and play. The mid-eighties music scene was a different beast than the modern one. Split into mini scenes in the post punk fallout it was going to take some navigating.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: That’s really when it gets serious from the moment he turns up. At the time, I’d never met the guy, we talked about what stuff we’d done before. We probably told him about The Patrol and playing Portland bars… and he’d basically been playing in rock bands since… his mum and dad ran a pub in I think Denton, it was like a pub where they’d have rock bands on… and he was an amazing freak drummer as a kid… so they’d have a drum kit set up in the pub that he had access to…. he’d played with like some quite big local rock bands from his area…he’d already done proper gigs which none of us had really done, aside from half a dozen Patrol gigs… he was like way beyond us… I hope he tells you about all that side of it.
Ian Brown: 'Tragic Roundabout' was first tune we did with Reni and we realised that this was it
Bootleg: Tape

Ian George Brown - Vocals
John Thomas Squire - Lead Guitar
Andy Couzens - Rhythm Guitar, Backing Vocals
Peter Garner - Bass Guitar
Alan John 'Reni' Wren - Drums, Backing Vocals

1984 - The Lock Up, Chorlton, Manchester
Nowhere Fast / All Stitched Up / Mission Impossible / Tradjic Roundabout
Notes: They shared a rehearsal space with Easterhouse, billed then in the press as the next Smiths, but the Roses were kicked out when some equipment went missing. All Stripped Down could be another name for 1984 song All Stitched Up.
Andy Couzens said: “One of Reni’s mates and Reni nicked a load of their gear and some of our gear as well...but he always disputed it."
Steve Adge, future Roses tour manager, ran the rehearsal rooms. Steve would soon organise the roses 'Flower Shows' warehouse parties, and in the future would become their tour manager. John Robb's band The Membranes, also reheared at the same space.
Notes: From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Peter Garner said: In the next few months we rehearsed everywhere. We even did the Boardwalk once and never went back because the room was shit. Later on, we rehearsed at the Chorlton Lock Up which had something to do with Spirit rehearsal studios. (This is where I met the band, my band The Membranes had just to Manchester from Blackpool and we were rehearsing next door to them. The other band in the rooms was Carmel.)
Mike Pickering said: I remember the Roses really early on, seeing them a couple of time when they rehearsed in Spirit in Chorlton behind the car showroom in a place with Carmel next door. The Roses were a bit psychedelic- not a Goth band like some people say. They were not scallies- maybe in their attitude but they didn’t dress like scallies. Ian was at the Hacienda all the time- he lived there! So, I knew him really well.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Moved to the Lock Up in Chorlton… I can’t remember why we went down there. The Smiths used to rehearse down there as well, next door to us. It was a decent room. I think it was because Ian and John were both living in Chorlton by this point… I was living in town so a lot of time we used to meet at my flat in town…

1984 - Ian Brown leaves the DSS office, Dane Road, Sale.
From May 2002 - Trafford Today Newspaper: A colleague recalls him coming in with a list of names and asking everybody which one they thought was best. That was when the band became The Stone Roses....After two years, Ian reluctantly resigned from his job, when a two-month tour of Scandinavia and beckoning stardom meant he could no longer give it the attention he felt it deserved.

1984 - Ian Brown inbetween jobs
Notes: During his time on the dole Ian travelled to Spain, France, Italy, Holland and Berlin. During his travels he met a gig promoter from Sweden, he told him The Stone Roses were the next big thing and soon enough the Swedish contact booked the band for a string of dates in Sweden, see April 1985.

August 1984 - Spirit Studios, Tariff Street, Manchester
Tragic Roundabout / The Misery Dictionary (So Young) / Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit)
Notes: The 8 track demo tape recording is on one side only and lasts 15 minutes. Recorded on a, newly installed, Brennel eight-track machine overnight at Spirit.
Apparently the band 'borrowed' they keys to the studios from the cleaner and invited themselves into the studio to record. Following the poor attempt of a break-in, Reni and Squire slapped a bit of paint on the walls in the live room, locked the Secretary out of the studios, and set to work on their demo. Despite the crackly faders, the touch-and-go mics, the temperamental wiring and the hand-dryer which triggered the 8-track machine, The Stone Roses recorded their first demo tape."
The paper on the cassette has been spray painted, by John Squire, in red and reads ''THE STONE ROSES''. Running Time - 15 Mins. Telephone numbers featured and a south Didsbury Flat address too "Spirit Studios Demos 1984. 8 Track Demo 1984. Tragic Roundabout / The Misery Dictionary / Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit"
The Spirit Studios closed and became the Kosmonaut bar. The studios were underground. The building in question though on Tariff Street in Manchester’s Northern Quarter is still there today. The date is often noted as 'January 1985' and the session's production is credited to Tim Oliver (see 'January 1985').
So Young is known as its original title 'The Misery Dictionary'. Both The Misery Dictionary & Nowhere Fast would later be re-named as they were being linked to fellow Manchester band 'The Smiths' song titles. The Smiths released a song called Nowhere Fast on the album 'Meat Is Murder' which would later be released 11 February 1985.
The 1984 demo tape went on display at the 30 Years of Spirit Exhibition during April 2014 along with a selection of other artists photos and memorabilia. Entry was free and took place at Kosmonaut on Tariff Street.
A copy of the demo tape was sold at auction, see the details here...Auction Date: 20 May 2015 20:00 BST - LOT 968 (Unsold, it did not meet the reserve price.) - Omega Auctions, Omega's offices, unit 3.5 Meadow Mill, Stockport - Second Auction Date: 26 Nov 2015 10:30 GMT - LOT 1032 (Sold) Auction description: THE STONE ROSES - ridiculously rare and the earliest Stone Roses demo cassette you will find dating from 1984 and recorded at Spirit Studios. The recording is on one side only and lasts 15 minutes. The paper on the cassette has been spray painted in red and reads ''THE STONE ROSES'' c1984. Tracks to include 'Tragic Roundabout', 'So Young', 'Mission Impossible' and 'Nowhere Fast'.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: What were your influences then? The Smiths? IB: I liked the fact that the Smiths came from our home town and I knew Andy Rourke when I was a kid, so I was happy for them. I liked "What Difference Does It Make?" but after that, no, not really....RC: Did you do any demo tapes? Yeah, we did one that was limited to a hundred copies but I don’t have it anymore. All my stuff got nicked years later so I don’t even have a copy myself!
From Simon Spence's Book 'War & Peace': Stephen ‘Cressa’ Cresser hung out with both the Mondays and Roses at rehearsals (for a while both bands rehearsed at the same place, the legendary Spirit studios). As the Roses were only playing sporadic gigs in this period, Cressa became a roadie for the more active Mondays.
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Ian Brown said: Me and Andy drove down to London. We walked into a studio and saw this PA on the floor. We picked it up, put it in the back of his car and drove back to A1 music in Manchester and swopped it for an amp and then swopped another bit of it at Spirit for a drum kit. We had started rehearsing at Spirit in town by then in 1984.
From ilovemanchester.com 20 November 2017 Dave Haslam wrote: ''Even if you’re a regular drinker in Kosmonaut on Tariff Street in Manchester’s Northern Quarter, you might not know that the building, an old warehouse, used to be rehearsal rooms and a recording studio called Spirit. It was where drummer Mike Joyce was summoned by Morrissey and Marr to audition for the Smiths. Spirit wasn’t grand, but it didn’t have to be. It was a cheap, entry-level 4-track studio which made it accessible to bands wanting to record demo tapes in their quest to be signed to a label. The first Stone Roses demo tape was recorded at Spirit in August 1984.''
May 2002 - From The Very Best Of 2002 sleeve notes, article by John McCready: John: But that didn't happen overnight. It took five years. Five years of rehearsals and shitty cassettes and slightly better demo tapes. We were looking at the Pistols and The Beatles and The Byrds and thinking we could have a go at them. We would just try and compete on that level.
It is not known when the deliberate misspelling of the song was decided. It had appeared on bootlegs prior to its official release on "Garage Flower" under the spelling of "Tragic Roundabout". It is possible the spelling of tradjic was only decided on around 1996 when the album was eventually released.
Official: Spirit Studios Demos 1984 (Cassette)
Bootleg: And On The Sixth Day Whilst God Created Manchester...The Lord Created The Stone Roses (November 1989. Vinyl White Label. Matrix B-Side: B. The release was mentioned in May 1990 - Sky Magazine article.) ''The following tracks are all taken from various demos/sessions:'' Tragic Roundabout (Tradjic Roundabout) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Misery Dictionary (So Young) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Mission Impossible (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Trust A Fox (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / All I Want (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Fall (not listed on sleeve) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Gettin' Plenty (You Can Have Me, Wherever You Want Me) (Getting Plenty) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Heart On The Staves (fades out 2:45) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / I Wanna Be Adored - Heart On The Staves (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Tell Me (not listed on sleeve) (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Waterfall (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / / Elephant Stone (with different words) (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / Shoot You Down (Drum Machine version) (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / (less than a second cut off from The Hardest Thing In The World (1986 - Yacht Club Studios, Bredbury, Manchester) / This Is The One (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / (Song For My) Sugar Spun Sister (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / The Sun Still Shines (listed but not included)

23 October 1984 Tuesday - Anti-Heroin Benefit, Moonlight Club, Hampstead, London * Doors Open: 20:00 * Ticket Price: £2.50 * Supporting: Pete Townshend, Mercenary Skank & High Noon.
Soundcheck: Open My Eyes (The Nazz cover)
Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / All Stitched Up (All Stripped Down) / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves
Reni joins Pete Townsend & The High Noon onstage for: Pictures Of Lily / Substitute / The Kids Are Alright
Notes: Pete Townsend (Guitarist for The Who) organised event. The evening ended in a jam session involving Pete Townshend, Reni and members of High Noon, performing The Who songs Pictures of Lily, Substitute and The Kids Are Alright.
Ian saw an advert in Sounds Magazine 1984 that asked for bands to take part in an anti-heroin benefit in support of Pete Townshend‘s Double O Charity. He sent a demo tape and a letter "I'm surrounded by skagheads, I wanna smash 'em. Can you give us a show?" to Caroline Read (manager of Mercenary Skank) and she booked the band.
Caroline was so impressed with the demos and the show she became their first manager, she booked them for a couple of London shows before Howard "Ginger" Jones, Factory Records director, came along.
Caroline shot a video of the event, but has never shared any copies.
The show was seen by journalists including Sounds' Garry Johnson, who arranged to interview the band a few weeks later.
Townsend was openly impressed with Reni. Ian Brown said: “We came offstage and Townshend was, like, ‘You look really good up onstage and your drummer’s great'...Then he said, ‘I want to play a couple of tunes’, and he asked Reni, ‘Do you want to do it?‘ Reni’s like, ‘Yeah!’ "We were like, ‘Shit, Reni's gonna leave. Townshend's nicking Reni.''.
All Stitched Up was also known as All Stripped Down, one of few songs which have never circulated on the bootleg circuit.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: When did you start to play gigs? IB; We met Reni in early ’84 and the first Roses gig was in December in the Moonlight in Hampstead, an anti-heroin benefit that Pete Townshend put on. I’d seen an advert in the paper saying they were looking for bands. I lived in Hulme, where everyone was on skag except me. So I wrote a letter saying I’m surrounded by skagheads, I wanna smash ‘em. Can you give us a show? And they did. The other groups were mercenary Skank and High Noon, who all wore cowboy hats like Gary Cooper! (laughs)
RC: Didn’t Reni play with Townshend? IB: He did "Pictures Of Lily", "Substitute", He was made up – his first ever gig and there he was wth Pete Townshend! We come off stage and Townshend was like, you look really good up there and your drummer's great. Then he said, as an end-of-the-night thing, I wanna play a couple of tunes. Do you want to do it? Reni’s like, yeah! We’d do soundchecks and Reni had people with their mouths open!
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Caroline Reed had organised it, so we did our soundcheck, our first soundcheck, we did the Nazz cover, and she came over after the soundcheck and said have you got a manager, I want to manage you… just on the strength of that. Yeah, why not? She videoed the gig and then Townshend asked Reni to drum with him, and he did… did maybe 3 or 4 Who tunes and one of them Reni didn’t know the song. I was on the side of the stage and he mouthed to me, how does it go? It was surreal, what an experience. But I was thinking, shit man, our secret weapon is out of the bag, he’s going to get poached...Heart On The Staves… That was another thing that annoyed us at the time was the tortured artist, false emotion thing, that’s where Heart On The Staves comes from…
Promo poster read: ''A Special Benefit Concert. In Aid Of 'Community Drug Project' Oct' 23 Tuesday The Moonlight Club, West Hampstead. Mercenary Skank appearing together with High Noon & Stone Roses. Doors Open 8pm. Please and Support! ADM £2.50''
Bootlegs: A video shot by Mercenary Skank's manager Caroline Read, still remains unreleased. At least one photo has been released from the show though.

21 November 1984 - Adlib Labour Club, Exeter * Supporting: Mercenary Skank
(Setlist unconfirmed, presumed the same as the last show): Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / ''All Stripped Down'' / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves
Notes: Caroline Reed booked this show. All Stripped Down could be another name for 1984 song All Stitched Up.
Andrew Tunnicliffe, guitarist of Mercenary Skank was quite praising: "They were a bit like The Clash. They went on stage and made a racket. I particularly liked them."
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: Any other early gigs? IB: We played the Embassy Club in London with Chiefs Of Relief – the launch party for Dennis Morris’s Sex Pistols book. The Ad Lib Club. Exeter University. Then we didn’t play until the middle of ’85 when we went to Sweden...

22 November 1984 - Ad Lib 'Adlib' Club, Kensington, London * Supporting: Mercenary Skank
(Setlist unconfirmed, presumed the same as the last show): Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / ''All Stripped Down'' / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves
Notes: The photo of the band on the insert of the Garage Flower sleeve (see February 1996) was taken at this show, note the matching outfits. There is no actual credit for the photo mentioned in the sleeve, nor is there any production credits for the album either. Caroline Reed booked this show.
From 05 January 1985 - Sounds Magazine, Robin Gibson wrote: "MERE SECONDS after the demise of Mercenary Skank, here comes the new one. With a fresh rhythm section and one less guitarist, tonight was rough and a little shaky in places. It was also one of their most invigorating and convincing gigs. All they've lost, really, are the overbearing guitar climaxes which used to mar their set. This is more dynamic, sinewy and open, leaving the ever-improving, effervescent, darting/leaping vocal figure of Scratch more room to colour and shade their frequently excellent songs, and guitarist Andy more room simply to move. Mercenary Skank have vitality/personality/honesty and plenty good reasons to occasionally dress in black leather - the tunnel vision of all our regressive new raunch-rockers (ahem) is mercifully absent...."
''The Stone Roses are a little like Skank before they came good: crashing guitars and misplaced energy, and (very unfortunately) a drummer who wants to be a Keith Moon in a band who don't need one. Any good songs were lost in a one-paced, blustering set, and hindered by a singer who possesses the power but not the range of the feeling. The Stone Roses are clumsy and Clash-influenced: slicked back hair and (admittedly) some obvious emotion with nowhere to go. To do this sort of rock 'n' roll - as Mercenary Skank have learned - you need to be deft and sparing, not loudmouthed and careless. But be fair! It was only their third gig. But be honest, too. It didn't make me want to see their fourth. Robin Gibson.''

16 November 1984 - Mani's 22nd birthday
24 November 1984 - John Squire's 22nd birthday

14 December 1984 Friday - 'Ad-Lib - Christmas Punk Extravaganza', The Kensington, Russel Gardens, W14 * Doors Open: 19:30-23:00 * Supporting: Mercenary Skank * Ticket Price: £1.50
Notes: Information taken from a black and white flyer. Nearest tube station 'Shepperd’s Bush'.

December 1984 - Garry Johnson interviews the band for Sounds Magazine in Piccadilly Train Station, Manchester (see 15 January 1985)

T' Mill - 25 December 1984 - Christmas Day Session, The Mill, Ashton-Under-Lyne
Mine-Train
Notes: The Mill would swap instruments during the sessions. Mani would introduce the song. Info taken from Storytime with Boon - Episode 16 Podcast. For more info on T'Mill see Inspiral Carpets 1983-1986.
Chris Goodwin said: “[It’s 1984 in Manchester and] Clint Boon had a factory with forklift trucks lying around so we used to record us throwing bottles at it, and record us running them over,”

T'Mill - 1984 - T'Mill release 'Sounds Awreet To Me!' E.P.
Just As The Curtain Finally Falls
Form A Line
Whiskey In Our Heads
Giving It Some Real Heavy Turkey
?
Russian Mill Worker's Song
Notes: An early incarnation of Inspiral Carpets Whiskey features here. Handwritten tape notes 'T'Mill 'Sounds Awreet To Me!' 1984', rear tape inlay 'Recorded At The Mill Christmas '84'. For more info on T'Mill see Inspiral Carpets 1983-1986.
E.P. Info From Storytime with Boon - Episode 16 Podcast.
From 2001 I Am Without Shoes Exclusive Mani Interview: > IAWS: What are your memories of The Mill? What did you sound like and do you want to share your tapes of The Mill with us? > Mani: The Mill was just me, Clint Boon and Chris from The High. We’d go down to Clint Boon’s dad's factory and make a racket with power tools and machinery! No, I’d rather not share the tapes, thanks very much! (laughs)
Official: Sounds Rwreet To Me! E.P. () Cassette

1985
Ian Brown - Vocals
John Squire - Lead Guitar
Andy Couzens - Rhythm Guitar, Backing Vocals
Alan 'Reni' Wren - Drums, Backing Vocals
Pete Garner - Bass Guitar

John Squire Artwork:
'Wreckage' by Johnny, John Squire. Design was by Glenn Routledge at Anagram Studios. The front cover artwork was produced by John Squire, who smashed an old transistor radio and then glued the parts together.
I Wanna Be Adored - Unreleased artwork, intended to be the second single.
This Is The One - Intended to be the third Thin Line single after unreleased second single I Wanna Be Adored

04 January 1985 - Fulham Greyhound, London * Support: Last Party
(Setlist unconfirmed, presumed the same as the last show): Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / ''All Stripped Down'' / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves / Getting Plenty
Notes: Apparently Getting Plenty ended the set. Technically the band's first show as headliners. Mercenary Skank pulled out. All Stripped Down could be another name for 1984 song All Stitched Up.

January 1985 - Spirit Studio Session, Basement, Tariff Street, Manchester
The Misery Dictionary (So Young) / Tragic Roundabout / Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit)
Notes: Date conflicts with August 1984 - Spirit Studios, unconfirmed which is correct. The band recorded a demo which was produced by Tim Oliver. Tim worked as teacher at John Breakell's 'School of Sound Recording' (SSR). Tim went on to be producer, engineer, songwriter, arranger and musician working with the likes of Sinead O'Connor, Cara Dillon, Electric Soft Parade and Robert Plant. Tim taught David Wood, who later would be involved with the Garage Flower sessions. The band met future tour manager Steve Adge in Spirit Studios; he had recently left the band 'Third Law'. Peter bought a bass amp off Steve around this time too.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Nowhere Fast…? Have you heard that first demo? That’s on it, Mission Impossible, So Young and Tragic Roundabout… they were the ones that stayed in the set for a bit. You recorded at Spirit studios … We did the demo… I don’t know how it happened. We had no money so I don’t know how we paid for it. We got on with John Breakell, we did a few things there, so it wouldn’t surprise me if we said yeah, we’ll tidy up if we can have a bit of recording time...Nothing to do with the TV shows… just a play on words. If you’re going to sing about something being tragic, then Tragic Roundabout sounds pretty good… Mission Impossible was about trying to attain something that wasn’t possible, so the title just sounded good...Respect, was another title for Nowhere Fast… Si had left us and joined The Smiths and we realised The Smiths had a song called Nowhere Fast, so we went no way, so we changed the title… we didn’t know The Smiths had song called that when we wrote it… but I don’t remember that demo. I remember it we did the first demo and then the next time we did any proper recording was with Martin …That’s where we met Steve Adge, I think he’d just left the band he was in - Third Law. When we there, 84, early 85; I don’t remember there being any bands of any note in there.
2013 - David Wood wrote: 'School of Sound Recording' (SSR) which, although sounded very professional, was based in a basement on Tariff Street in Manchester's Northern Quarter.
Bootleg: The First Coming - Misery Dictionary (So Young) / Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit)

1985 - The Stone Roses stay with journalist Garry Johnson at his home in Hackney, London
From February 2016 - Q Magazine: After interviewing them in Manchester for their first press feature, Johnson offered the fledgling Roses regular London accommodation at his Hackney home where Brown would sift through his Trojan reggae collection, dancing to Tighten Up LPs in the lounge.
Garry Johnson said: “He was constantly eating oranges. All the time. Ian never drank, but he smoked a lot of spliffs and he liked speed in them days too. It just used to make him funnier, even more quick witted. Me and Ian used to shoot off on our own and end up speeding and drinking milkshakes at the all-night McDonald’s in Charing Cross, rabbiting for hours about music and how to get them a deal.”

1985 - Garry Johnson took the band to a party for Max Bygraves, Kettner’s, Soho, London
Notes: According to February 2016 - Q Magazine.

198? - Gary Glitter launch at the Hippodrome.
Notes: Garry Johnson took the band to the event.
From February 2016 - Q Magazine: “None of us knew about Gary Glitter back then," Johnson Keenly stresses. “I also used to mention the Roses as much as I could in my Sounds gossip column. At another event they met Angie Bowie, so I ran a story that there was a new romance on the cards with her and Ian. Stuff like that. Ian didn’t mind, but I know John didn’t like that sort of stuff.”

M - 15 January 1985 - The Stone Roses are Interviewed by and feature in Sounds Magazine
Notes: Garry Johnson reviews the band and introduces them to Bruce Foxton of The Jam. Apparently Bruce Foxton was tipped to produce the band’s debut album, before Martin Hannett. Garry was a fan of the band after Ian sent him a demo tape and invited him to several shows in London.
The interview was probably conducted in December 1984 and transcripted for the 12 January 1985 issue, unconfirmed though. See Media for the interiview.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Then Garry Johnson pops up? We used to buy Sounds and it was Ian again, because he was into the Upstarts and Rejects, so Garry Johnson was like the voice of Oi before Bushell.
Basically, Ian sent Garry a demo tape, he knew what journalists did what at the paper, so he sent him the tape, Garry liked it, rang Ian up and that’s how we got the first press in Sounds.
He came up with a photographer. It was our first interview in the press. I’d bought Sounds every week from being a kid... and our name was on the front of it and there was a picture... it was a massive thing. So, pleased. We met him at Piccadilly station, we went and did some shots, he interviewed us, then we kept in touch. When we went down to London, we’d meet up with him and he blagged us into a few parties.
And Bruce Foxton offered to produce the Roses? Well, we met Bruce Foxton… we’d been big Jam fans but it was mainly me and Ian. John was never really having it. So although we all liked the same music, there were certain bands, I bonded with Ian over this band, John with this band…we never all liked exactly the same thing…and for whatever reason John just wasn’t having the Jam.
Me and Ian absolutely loved it. We’re in London and Garry takes us to this Bruce Foxton gig or something, and we get to meet Bruce Foxton. And some photographer’s going to take a photo of us with Bruce Foxton and John’s refusing. He was like, no I don’t want to do that… so there wasn’t a photo of us with Bruce Foxton.
I’d met the Jam when I was 14… I used to wag school a lot and hang around town and I met Rick Butler on Oxford Road when they were playing Salford Uni. I saw him and approached him and he was on his way to the pictures, I was with my mate, and I asked if we could go with him. He said okay come if you want… I said I haven’t got any money… so he paid for us into the pictures … we watched Every Bit But Loose… he was totally cool, he bought us a box of Maltesers, sounds sinister… we were in school uniform… but it wasn’t. We came out, went to the pub, he bought us a couple of drinks, he was great… and the next day the Jam were playing at Salford Uni. He put us on the guest list… we arranged to meet him at the Piccadilly hotel the next day and met Bruce Foxton and Paul Weller. Rick needed drum skins and didn’t know where to get them so me and my mate got in the tour bus and showed them where to buy them from … and it was the day of the Woolworths fire in Manchester, Piccadilly. 30-odd people died… horrific… people were trapped… it was on that day… I was in the Jam’s mini-bus with my school uniform watching Woolworths burn. So, I loved the Jam and had a history; so, it was like ‘hi Bruce remember me…’ but John was like no I don’t want to have my photo taken with Bruce Foxton.
Show business party? Pete beats up Limahl… Yeah. Pete doesn’t beat up Limahl. Garry took us to this party, we’re kids, everyone there is a celebrity, Bananarama, Kajagoogoo, Captain Sensible was there, I was chuffed to meet him. It’s all pop stars… apart from us, no-one knows who the fuck we are, Garry Johnson has just blagged us in… it was free drinks… it was one of them, pigs head with fruit in it… I’d never seen anything like it… free champagne… yes please… I got pretty pissed and all it was I went to the toilet, kicked the bog door open and as I went in Limahl was coming out. I didn’t beat him up, I didn’t even hit, didn’t do anything, bumped into him… and then seeing it was Limahl, I thought it was quite amusing… so I mentioned it to Garry Johnson, oh I bumped into Limahl in the bogs… the next thing I know there’s a story in Sounds about how the bass player from the Roses has beaten up Limahl… you know how it works… it was bullshit…
Garry went to bat then… Oh yeah, and for an unknown band he got us quite a bit of press. At the end of 84 it was bands to watch in 85 and he got us in that… he tipped us as being a big thing for 85 and we were a tiny band who’d done one demo tape and six gigs… he was a massive champion of the cause… and a lot of that was he just liked the band really… he liked us…
From February 2016 - Q Magazine:
“You could never pigeonhole Ian,” says Garry Johnson, former Sounds journalist, punk poet and early Roses champion.
“He was neither a punk nor a mod. When I first met him his clothes looked mod but his hair was gelled back like Dave Vanian from The Damned. It was a funny combination of all sorts.”
The Stone Roses who met Johnson off his train at Manchester’s Piccadilly Station in 1984 were still a work—in— progress moulded from the ashes of The Patrol, disbanded three years earlier.
“Ian was easily the most charismatic one in the band," remembers Johnson.
“He was arrogant and confident, but in a nice way. He acted like a star, even though he didn’t have a pot to piss in at the time."

January 1985 - The Marquee Club, London * Supporting: Mercenary Skank
(Setlist unconfirmed, presumed the same as the last show): Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / ''All Stripped Down'' / Tradjic Roundabout / Heart On The Staves / Getting Plenty
Notes: All Stripped Down is another name for 1984 song All Stitched Up. This was probably the last time it was played live.
Ian put his microphone through a stage monitor during the set.
Sounds Magazine, Garry Johnson attends.
From 02 February 1985 - Sounds Magazine, Garry Johnson Reviews the band again: - Mercenary Skank / The Stone Roses - Marquee.
IN THE blue corner, Mercenary Skank -visually very Lords Of The New Church, musically they might have been spawned from the same sewer. In the red corner, the hotly tipped musical tearaways the Stone Roses.
And if you think this reads like a boxing match then you've got the right idea, cos after the Roses' recent Sounds feature where they claimed to have "blown the Skanks off stage", the office got swamped with letters of calls from the Mercenary ones nixing the idea. And so I was dispatched with the brief to referee their next debacle. And my verdict, my fellow citizens, is that Stone Roses take it on points.
With punky energy firing their inventive rockers, the Stone Roses were even more impressive tonight than on the previous time I caught their act, not least because of the handsome harmony vocals they've added to their fiery brew, giving it an altogether poppier feel. Strong original songs like 'Mersey Dictionary' and 'Tragic Roundabout' swung my decision firmly in their favour.
The Mercenary Skanks on the other hand peaked with a powerful, anthemic version of The Who's 'Teenage Wasteland'. The trouble was that none of their own songs even got within spitting distance.
I wouldn't have said they were bad, they just gave the impression of going through the motions. A team without star players and lacking any hint of originality, they sounded like a cross between the Lords, the Alarm and old Lords support bands. They were just jaded, spirited but jaded, and I definitely got the impression that it wouldn't be long before they're supporting the Roses.
If they're playing for the love of rock 'n' roll that's fine, but if the Skanks wanna be stars I think they've already missed the boat.
Finally, to continue the sporting metaphors, man of the match was definitely Roses' drummer Reni - the Keith Moon of the 80s, you mark my words.

08 February 1985 - 'The Best of Manchester Show', Dingwalls, Camden, London * Bands: Glee Company, Communal Drop, Fictitious Names, Laugh and The Stone Roses.
Notes: This showcase of Manchester bands (‘The Best of Manchester Show’) was organised by DJ Tony Michaelides aka Tony The Greek. Tony invited the band to play and he would also give them there first, and only, Live Radio Session (see 24 March 1985). Tony said: "Ian Brown was fantastic. He didn't seem to care that the audience was flimsy. He just wanted to show off... walking right up to people and singing in their faces."
Compere on the night was, Piccadilly FM DJ, Mark Radcliffe. Clint Boon, of T'Mill & Inspiral Carpets, was at the show.
After the Dingwalls show, Mark Radcliffe said: “Ian Brown was fantastic. He didn't seem to care that the audience was flimsy. He just wanted to show off...walking right up to people and singing in their faces.".
From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: "I think I prefer playing in London" chips in Ian. "In Sweden they like you just because you're there. In London the crowds are really cool and stand back. I prefer an audience who stand there staring with blank faces, totally shocked because we just go on stage and go berserk, even if there's hardly anyone there. It just winds me up, so I think we do a better show when people are more antagonistic to you than if they love you."
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Dingwalls, Feb 85… ? An interesting one - that was a few bands from Manchester travelling down to play… that’s how I think we met Clint Boon. The band he was involved in then played… Ian’s not doing Iggy Pop but he’s pretty confrontational… his thing at the time was he always insisted on a really long mic lead so he could go out in the audience… he’s not aggressive but he’s got balls of steel… that’s why you want him as your singer… he’d go out into the crowd and pick someone’s drink up in front of them and say cheers, not in a threatening way but in that Ian way and he can get away with it… Iggy was more attack the audience, it wasn’t like that… it was just bravado, balls of steel, nobody could ignore you if the singers gets off the stage and walks up to you singing, giving you full eye contact, takes your drink and drinks it and then puts it down… you ain’t going to forget that… our singer had balls of steel..

February 1985 - Howard Jones take over as the band’s manager.
Notes: Caroline Reed was struggling to get the band another show. The mixed reviews did not help.
Howard "Ginger" Jones was the manager at Factory Records' Hacienda Club in Manchester. Howard gave Martin Hannett a copy of the bands demo tape. Martin Hannett was a former Factory Records director, he would later produce the band’s debut single and record the 'Garage Flower' album, an album which would remain unreleased until 1996. Tim Chambers was involved with the Thin Line project and was also ex-Factory Video productions and IKON staff.
Howard Jones, Martin Hannett and Tim Chambers co-founded Thin Line Records, the independent label who would record, fund and release the band’s debut single. Howard and Martin both left Factory to form their own label as they no longer agreed with other Factory founders’ decisions. Martin was a partner in the record company and Tony Wilson was the manager. In 1982 Tony made the final decision to build The Hacienda nightclub, despite Martin's plea to build a recording studio first. Martin left when he found out how much had been spent on building the club and eventually took Factory to court to obtain his share of his investment in the company.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Howard Jones… I remember disliking him because his comment about the band was that bassist has got to get his hair cut… I took umbrage…who the fuck are you man, telling me how to have my hair… Howard was in Chorlton, he was living on Zetland Rd near to where they were living. it was the days where people used to move quite regularly, you might be in a flat for three months… Ian’s lived in a lot of flats, him and Mitch probably did share with John.
From Blood On The Turntable BBC TV Documentary, Andy Couzens said: You could never tell where his intentions were, y'know, then when you realise he's got 28% of the record sales and then there's another 20% from thinline, that started to feel a little dirty.

February 1985 - The Lock Up, Chorlton, Manchester
Notes:
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: I think what happened was we started rehearsing at the Lock-Up, Howard brings Martin down the Lock-up, so we’re like of Martin who produced Slaughter & The Dogs rather than oh it’s the Joy Division guy… so me and Ian are asking him what are slaughter like, we’d heard all these great stories… he was a bit taken aback because everyone wanted to talk to him about Joy division apart from us… so he came down, listened to us. He was involved with Thin Line with Howard, maybe as the in-house producer as he had been with Factory… Martin had fallen out with Factory, Tony Wilson had fallen out with Howard, the reason Wilson hated us for a long time was because all these people he’d fallen out with tended to look like they were working with us… it wasn’t deliberate.
Martin likes us and then Howard said we can put a single out and Martin can produce it… there was no outlay… but they’d sort it, Martin had credit at Strawberry… they’d put it out and nay money, Martin could pay the studio bill off with that.

20 February 1985 - Ian Brown's 22nd birthday
01 October 2009 Thursday 12:14 - The Guardian Newspaper article, by Guardian Music - Hannah Pool Interview: Ian Brown talks to Hannah Pool about the Stone Roses and his solo career...You have this image of being a big druggie. Because of my cheekbones, people think I'm a crackhead. When the Roses first came out, the early reviews used to call me simian. I had to look that up at the time. Then they used to call me androgenous. Then somewhere down the line, through all the Madchester thing, it became, "He's a crackhead." I've never even tried crack, I've never taken heroin. I didn't start smoking weed until I was 22.

T'Mill - 1985 - T'Mill release Minstrels In Lowerby Land Land (M.I.L.L.)
Notes: T'Mill split shortly after the release, Clint Boon went on to form Hungry Socks (Sox) with Mani and Chris Goodwin and shortly after Clint joined Inspiral Carpets. Info From Storytime with Boon - Episode 16 Podcast.
For more info on T'Mill see Inspiral Carpets 1983-1986.
Cassette

20 February 1985 - The Maze, Nottingham

March 1985 - Yellow Two, Strawberry Studios, Stockport
So Young / Tell Me
Notes: Strawberry Studios was initially in a 20-foot square room over a record shop in 1967, and was known as Inner-City Studios.
Mindbenders guitarist and songwriter (Droylsden born) Eric Stewart and his former roadie Peter Tattersall took over the studios. Under new management it was renamed as Strawberry Recording Studios - a tribute to The Beatles' hit Strawberry Fields Forever.
A new site on nearby Waterloo Road, and with additional backing from 10cc's Graham Gouldman and music agent/promoter Kennedy Street Enterprises, turned it into the studio of the north for many artists and the home of 10cc. The studio would see it's initial closure in 1993.
The studio had seen many famous faces through its door over the years (Neil Sedaka, 10cc, Paul Mc Cartney) and even local punk talent (The Buzzcocks, Joy Division).
During the initial meeting and sessions Martin was joined assistant Steve Hopkins, although he left in March 1985. Howard Jones came down to the studio too.
I presume the single tracks were recorded in March 1985. It is unconfirmed if the band recorded the other Garage Flower tracks in March.
The final mixes though must have been finished in May, despite only being released 19 August 1985. The 12inch sleeve note the recording sessions as 'March to May 1985'. See '1985 - Unreleased So Young/Tell Me Mixes' for more details regarding the unreleased mixes.
2013 - David Wood wrote: Martin somehow had free studio time at Strawberry so he decided to go ahead and record the band...
From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: Who is the main songwriter of the band and what are the lyrics about? "I write all the lyrics" says Ian. "Mainly the lyrics are about personal experiences, about my friends or about how I feel. The single 'So Young' is about when I lived in Hulme, everyone who lived there seemed to think it was great to stay in bed until tea time. It's just a waste of life. I'm saying you've got to get out of bed today. They could be doing something more worthwhile with their time."
''What happened to Misery Dictionary? "We changed the title from Misery Dictionary to So Young because we didn't want people to think we were another Manchester band with another doom and gloom title, like The Smiths or Joy Division.", explains John. "The song is anti-miserable, telling people, there's no need to be sad even if they're on the dole." "So Young is a better description of the song" says Pete. "Being called Misery Dictionary sounds pessimistic and the song isn't. All the songs are totally optimistic." "...If I could write a song as good as 'Anarchy' I would be happy..."
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Ian Brown said: ''We had the Clash last album (‘Cut The Crap’ was the Clash’s patchy swansong- the songs sound great on the live bootlegs from the time though) and we thought- look how crap they are we can do it! We saw the death of the Clash and they were the number one band for us.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Misery Dictionary which was re-titled So Young.. was because The Smiths. I knew Johnny and Andy … we’d watched them go from being a kid’s band rehearsing to being on TOTPs to being a big and important band, so once you’ve seen your mates on telly you’re obviously like fuck we can do this. I really liked Johnny but I didn’t like the vocal or warm to Morrissey and that whole misery bedsit thing associated with Morrissey, that song was really an reaction against that. We were all young and enjoying ourselves, and our mates were in a band who were known for misery, shyness and depression… which didn’t seem right to us, we were all happy to be in a band and up for it… that’s how I saw it. John probably wrote most of it.
So Young at Yellow II...Martin could get credit. That’s how we end up, this tiny band recording in 10CC’s studio essentially…Martin had a huge reputation. He was cool and really helpful to me. I was still learning my instrument, and he was really patient with me. I’d never heard myself playing in perfect clarity in a studio before… the demos were done with no recording stuff separate, we just counted 4 and did the song and maybe did an overdub and that was it… with Martin we recorded things separately and I freaked out a bit… when you hear yourself in isolation playing, you’ve never heard yourself before… fucking hell you can hear every single tiny mistake... he was patient and supportive, he was great man.

1985 - Yellow Two, Strawberry Studios, Stockport
Tell Me / This Is The One (Take 1)
Notes: Unconfirmed date.
The bootleg The Ultimate Rarities notes the, This Is The One, recording date as 'Strawberry Studios, Stockport 1985, 3am - This Is The One - 1st ever take'.
The story goes that Martin Hannett locked the band in the studio and wouldn't let them out until they had finished a new song, the finally recorded a take at 3am and were let free.
From 27 September 2013 - Andy Couzens interview: ''So Young and Tell Me were recorded at an earlier session and, I still think, sound exciting if not a little naive - representative of the times !!!''
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Tell Me? Absolutely self-explanatory. It’s Rage Against the Machine before you were allowed to swear, I still like Tell Me it’s a fantastic song.
Bootlegs: Front In (Catalogue Number: SEM141) CD (features Tell Me)
Bootlegs: The Ultimate Rarities (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). *IAWS exclusive - you won't find this anywhere else* Running Time (Approx): 80 mins. Originally Priced: £12.00) CD-R "Piccadilly Radio Sessions, 24th March 1985" (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session, Piccadilly Studios, Manchester) I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me - Strawberry Studios, Stockport 1985, 3am - This Is The One - 1st ever take - Rehearsal, Chorlton, Manchester, 18th March 1986 (18 March 1986 - The Basement, Stockton Road, Chorlton, Manchester) Boy On The Pedestal / All Across The Sand / The Hardest Thing In The World / The Sun Still Shines - Acoustic, c.1986 - She Bangs The Drums / Waterfall - Demo, Bredbury, Manchester, 1986 (1986 - Yacht Club Studios, Bredbury, Stockport) Hardest Thing In The World - Demos, Chorlton, Manchester, 12th December 1986 (12 December 1986 - The Basement, Stockton Road, Chorlton, Manchester) Elephant Stone / Sun Still Shines / Going Down / Sugar Spun Sister
Demos, Manchester, Early 1988 (June 1988 - Coconut Grove Studios, Stockport or 1988 - Acetate Versions. Waterfall (1st Mix) June 1988 - Recording Sessions, Battery Studios, 1 Maybury Gardens, Willesden, North London, NW10 2NB) Waterfall / Shoot You Down - Demos, Suite-16 Studios, Manchester, May 1988 (May 1988 - Suite 16 Recording Studio, Quobeat Ltd. 16 Kenion Street, Off Drake Street, Rochdale, OL161SN) She Bangs The Drums / Waterfall / Made Of Stone / This Is The One - Demo, Battery Studios, London, January 1989 (January 1989 - Album Recording Session, Battery Studios, 1 Maybury Gardens, Willesden, London, NW10 2NB) Elizabeth My Dear - Waterfront Demos 1983, Pre-Roses band featuring Squire, Mani and Couzens. Normandy (On A Beach In) / When The Wind Blows

M - 15 March 1985 - Kevin Cummins Photo Shoot at Fletcher Moss Gardens, Manchester.
Notes: The band's debut photo session. The date featured in The Third Coming exhibithion booklet. The image was used for media purposes and eventually the cover of the IAWS Will Odell bootleg 'Ultimate Rarities'.

24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session, Piccadilly Studios, Manchester
Live: I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me
Take 2: I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me
Notes: Tony Michaelides aka Tony The Greek arranged the session. Mark Radcliffe set the band up in the studio. This was their first and only broadcast Live across Manchester and the North West of England. Steve Adge sat in on the radio session too.
Apparently, the band dropped off a promo of So Young & Tell Me for airplay (see 31 March 1985).
The band performed live but had to replay the songs as the studio engineer did not record the session. They wanted some live takes so they could repeat the session. It is unconfirmed if the source available on various bootlegs are from the live broadcast or the repeated live takes.
From Melody Maker Magazine, 1987: ''...''Our first single, 'Sally Cinnamon' is about to be released and, after that, we'll start talking to all the majors who've been sniffing around.'' Talking to the majors? What of Mandestas' grand ''indie-rock'' tradition? The Smiths, The Fall, New Order... ''Oh, sod that'' says Ian. ''They're all a generation older than us and those days have gone anyway. If you want to talk about tradition, did you know we're the best band since The Hollies to broadcast a live performance from a certain local radio station?'' - BS
From February 1998 - Uncut magazine Ian Brown interview: Everyone misinterpreted ‘I Wanna Be Adored’. It never meant I wanted to be adored. It was a song about sin. I never personally gave a fuck about being adored. The star was the audience. I wanted, and I still want, to finish the days where people are looking up at Bono or whoever. It’s a reaction against that pampering, limousine, coked-up thing. We wanted to kick over those icons.”
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Adored played… do you instantly think we’ve got a good one here? No. It just felt like the mellow one. Not the ballad one, it’s not a ballad. I discussed it with Ian, because he said to me, I need to write some more lyrics… there’s only four lines in it… I was like no no, no, that’s why it’s so good, less is more… and sort of convincing him not to add any more lyrics to him. It was unusual in the set because it was mellow… most of our songs were fast and quite angsty and that had quite a groove to it and minimal lyrics…
Live session on Piccadilly…? It was going out live… so we’re in this room at Piccadilly radio and doing this session and it’s going out live… I was terrified because if we fuck up there’s no doing it again…. Steve Adge could probably tell by my face that I was thinking if we fuck up here, we’re dead… half way through and it was going well, Steve threw a chair at us... just to add to the tension… we did it and it all went well and then the engineer said, I didn’t press the record button and they needed it on tape so they could repeat it… so we had to do the songs again…
Bootlegs: The Ultimate Rarities (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). *IAWS exclusive - you won't find this anywhere else* Running Time (Approx): 80 mins. Originally Priced: £12.00) CD-R "Piccadilly Radio Sessions, 24th March 1985" (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session, Piccadilly Studios, Manchester) I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me - Strawberry Studios, Stockport 1985, 3am - This Is The One - 1st ever take - Rehearsal, Chorlton, Manchester, 18th March 1986 (18 March 1986 - The Basement, Stockton Road, Chorlton, Manchester) Boy On The Pedestal / All Across The Sand / The Hardest Thing In The World / The Sun Still Shines - Acoustic, c.1986 - She Bangs The Drums / Waterfall - Demo, Bredbury, Manchester, 1986 (1986 - Yacht Club Studios, Bredbury, Stockport) Hardest Thing In The World - Demos, Chorlton, Manchester, 12th December 1986 (12 December 1986 - The Basement, Stockton Road, Chorlton, Manchester) Elephant Stone / Sun Still Shines / Going Down / Sugar Spun Sister
Demos, Manchester, Early 1988 (June 1988 - Coconut Grove Studios, Stockport or 1988 - Acetate Versions. Waterfall (1st Mix) June 1988 - Recording Sessions, Battery Studios, 1 Maybury Gardens, Willesden, North London, NW10 2NB) Waterfall / Shoot You Down - Demos, Suite-16 Studios, Manchester, May 1988 (May 1988 - Suite 16 Recording Studio, Quobeat Ltd. 16 Kenion Street, Off Drake Street, Rochdale, OL161SN) She Bangs The Drums / Waterfall / Made Of Stone / This Is The One - Demo, Battery Studios, London, January 1989 (January 1989 - Album Recording Session, Battery Studios, 1 Maybury Gardens, Willesden, London, NW10 2NB) Elizabeth My Dear - Waterfront Demos 1983, Pre-Roses band featuring Squire, Mani and Couzens. Normandy (On A Beach In) / When The Wind Blows
Bootleg: And On The Sixth Day Whilst God Created Manchester...The Lord Created The Stone Roses (November 1989. Vinyl White Label. Matrix B-Side: B. The release was mentioned in May 1990 - Sky Magazine article.) ''The following tracks are all taken from various demos/sessions:'' Tragic Roundabout (Tradjic Roundabout) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Misery Dictionary (So Young) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Mission Impossible (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Trust A Fox (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / All I Want (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Fall (not listed on sleeve) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Gettin' Plenty (You Can Have Me, Wherever You Want Me) (Getting Plenty) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Heart On The Staves (fades out 2:45) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / I Wanna Be Adored - Heart On The Staves (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Tell Me (not listed on sleeve) (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Waterfall (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / / Elephant Stone (with different words) (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / Shoot You Down (Drum Machine version) (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / (less than a second cut off from The Hardest Thing In The World (1986 - Yacht Club Studios, Bredbury, Manchester) / This Is The One (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / (Song For My) Sugar Spun Sister (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / The Sun Still Shines (listed but not included)
Bootleg: The Complete Stone Roses Demo Collection - (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "Piccadily Radio 1985, Garage Flower Sessions 1985, Ian and John acoustic c. 1986, Stone Roses Demos 1987, TSR recordings 1989" Running Time (Approx): 65 mins, Cassette, originally priced: £5.25) Tape - (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session, Piccadilly Studios, Manchester) I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me - 1985 - Garage Flower Sessions 1985 - I Wanna Be Adored - harder version (Garage Flower) / Here It Comes -harder version (Garage Flower) / This Is The One (Garage Flower) - Acoustic, c.1986 - She Bangs The Drums - acoustic, with different lyrics, song structure (Ian+John acoustic) / Waterfall - acoustic, with different singing notes (Ian+John acoustic) - Demo, Bredbury, Manchester, 1986 (1986 - Yacht Club Studios, Bredbury, Stockport) The Hardest Thing In The World - different lyrics (87 demo), Chorlton, Manchester, 12th December 1986 (12 December 1986 - The Basement, Stockton Road, Chorlton, Manchester) Elephant Stone / Sun Still Shines / Demos, Manchester, Early 1988 (June 1988 - Coconut Grove Studios, Stockport or 1988 - Acetate Versions. Waterfall (1st Mix) June 1988 - Recording Sessions, Battery Studios, 1 Maybury Gardens, Willesden, North London, NW10 2NB) Waterfall / Shoot You Down - (12 December 1986 - The Basement, Stockton Road, Chorlton, Manchester) Going Down / Sugar Spun Sister - Demo, Battery Studios, London, January 1989 (January 1989 - Album Recording Session, Battery Studios, 1 Maybury Gardens, Willesden, London, NW10 2NB) Elizabeth My Dear
Bootleg: Roses, Remixes and Rarities - (IAWS) Tape - I Wanna Be Adored (Piccadily Radio 1985) / Sally Cinnamon (12" Extended Mix) / Your Time Will Come (Live, Manchester 1987) / Elephant Stone *Full Fathom Five 7inch (Backwards Mix) / Full Fathom Five (12inch Version) / Waterfall (Paul Oakenfold Remix) / I Am Without Shoes (Complete Stone Roses Bonus Disc) / This Is The One (Live, Manchester 1987) / Groove On (Black Magic Devil Woman) (Complete Stone Roses Bonus Disc) / Fools Gold (Top Won Mix by A Guy Called Gerald) / One Love (Adrian Sherwood Mix) / Love Spreads (13-Minute Remix) *One Generation Under A Groove, Flower Power Mix Bootleg Remix / Breakout (Love Spreads B-Side) / Begging You (Maddix/Ippinson Remix) / I Am The Resurrection (5:3 Stoned Out Club Mix) / Begging You (Overworld Remix) / Champagne Supernova (Oasis live at Knebworth - John Squire on lead guitar)
Bootleg: They Were So Young...85 (EXP, Expire) (11 September 1985 - Vive Le Rock Exhibition, The Embassy Club - So Young / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me - listed as '19 April 1985' 23 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden - Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / Tragic Roundabout - listed as '1985 Demo' 24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session - I Wanna Be Adored-Heart On The Staves - listed as '02 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University' So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me)

31 March 1985 Sunday - Tony The Greek, The Last Radio Show, Piccadilly Radio, Manchester
Notes: The Piccadilly Radio Session is repeated. Unconfirmed if they played The Hard Mixes of So Young or Tell Me. Apparently a vinyl promo only was given to 'Tony The Greek' for The Last Radio Show, Piccadilly Radio. I am not sure if this is true as the band would have just recorded the two tracks, maybe they dropped off a copy in July/August when it was pressed on vinyl.
Thin Line Radio Promo Sheet read ''Thin Line Production P.R.12, Manchester's Stone Roses are currently Recording their debut single So Young/Tell Me at Strawberry Studios Manchester, with the enigmatic Martin Hannett. Three specific mixes will result from this collaboration.'' ''Mix (2) Hard (SR3) The Hard mix will be previewed as a DJ only mix on 'Tony The Greek' The Last Radio Show. Sunday March 31st 10-Piccadilly Radio. So Young (The Hard Mix) Tell Me (The Hard Mix)''

1985 - Unreleased So Young/Tell Me Mixes
Mix (1) Hurt (SR2) The Hurt mix will appear with exclusive interview on the May debut Magazine/Album.
So Young (The Hurt Mix)
Tell Me (The Hurt Mix)
Mix (2) Hard (SR3) The Hard mix will be previewed as a DJ only mix on 'Tony The Greek' The Last Radio Show. Sunday March 31st 10-Piccadilly Radio.
So Young (The Hard Mix)
Tell Me (The Hard Mix)
Mix (3) Heat (SR4) The Heat mix will cross the water to Nashville with Mr Hannett and re-appear as a single late April on Thin Line, Manchester's newest label.
So Young (The Heat Mix)
Tell Me (The Heat Mix)
Notes: Very interesting promo information sheet. Supposedly there was several mixes of So Young & Tell Me produced by Martin Hannett during the sessions but only two made the cut. The Hard Mixes looked like they were deemed for Radio.
The Heat Mixes are apparently the mixes used on the released single, they also looked like they were deemed as the mixes intended for a U.S. market too.
The Hurt Mixes are the most mysterious. Apparently, they were going to be included free with a Magazine (City Life?)/Album (Free flexi disc) released in May. Unconfirmed if this was a free flexi disc, 7inch press or a even a 12inch single.
Thin Line Radio Promo Sheet read ''Thin Line Production P.R.12, Manchester's Stone Roses are currently Recording their debut single So Young/Tell Me at Strawberry Studios Manchester, with the enigmatic Martin Hannett. Three specific mixes will result from this collaboration.''
'Prior to recording the second single The Stone Roses play their first local dates: ' 'Friday March 29th, Clouds, Preston, which will be videoed by Factory IKON F.C.L.'.' 'Saturday April 6th, Oddys, Oldham' 'Thursday April 11th, Manchester, The Gallery, To be recorded live for Piccadilly Radio' 'Further info in: M.M./N.M.E./SOUNDS/CITY LIFE/ In March 1985'
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: Looking back, are you happy with your first single, "So Young"? IB: It’s a good noise, but we played the original version in the car. We went for a drive and Reni’s nose exploded, blood everywhere – there was so much treble on the record, it hurt! We should have gone with that version but we said, no, it’s killer. It was pre-Mary Chain and full of feedback. It was beautiful. His nose just went with the frequency!
RC: You could have had a warning on it! IB: That’s what we should have done! But we went with the safer mix. It’s alright. It just sounds like what it is – four lads trying to get out of Manchester...
From February 1998 - Uncut magazine Ian Brown interview: We loved Slaughter and the Dogs. In 1985, we worked with Martin Hannett (releasing an ignored single, “So Young”, on Thin Line) because he’d done ‘Cranked Up Really High’, not cos of Joy Division and all that Manchester heritage. But Hannett was in a bad way. We caught him snorting coke off the ‘There’s no-one quite like Grandma’ gold disc! He was a junkie; lovely man, but nothing else mattered.”

29 March 1985 Friday - Clouds, Preston, Lancashire
Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / I Wanna Be Adored / Tell Me / Trust A Fox / So Young / Love Missile F1-11 (Sigue Sigue Sputnik cover)
Notes: Andy Couzens had technical issues on stage with his equipment. Only four songs into the set, the show ended in a riot. Ian pleaded with the crowd to stop fighting. Tony Wilson (Factory Records/Hacienda owner) was in the audience, he left before the riot even started. Martin Hannett was supposed to be at the show, unconfirmed if he made it on time. Steve Adge, Howard Jones and Chris Goodwin were in the audience too. According to a Thin Line Records Radio Promo Sheet this gig was set to be recorded for a future video release 'which will be videoed by Factory IKON F.C.L.'. It is unconfirmed if Tim Chambers set up a camera to record the show.
From 20 April 1985 - Melody Maker Magazine, journalist Ro Newton said: “Imagine the sound of fingernails scraping down a blackboard, amplified to an intolerable degree. The Stone Roses are tuning up. An angst-ridden vocal penetrates the plethora of deranged drumming and screaming feedback. The effect is impelling - for the handful of diehard masochists pulverising each other at the front of the stage. The rest are unimpressed. “The Stone Roses, sadly, are like a whole host of other bands circa '76 - thrashing through a monotonous set, bereft of subtlety or sensitivity. They serve merely as a catalyst for aggression; channelling energy and fervent emotion into their songs for all the wrong reasons. What's more, this band appears to believe strongly in what they're doing, which is even more disconcerting. “The singer reminds me of a harsher and less charismatic Pete Shelley, as he wails incoherently and hurtles around the stage. Potentially good songs such as "So Young" and "Nowhere Fast" were drowned in a mangled mess of dissonance. How they earned the label of Mancunian Deviant Merseybeat I'll never know, especially when they so blatantly lack melody and originality. A pitiful display.”
Howard Jones (The Stone Roses manager) said: “We were getting a really bad reputation and the problem was that it was deserved. I knew that we would have trouble playing anywhere in Britain, after that."
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Preston Clouds? Nightmare… it was Preston and we hadn’t played in Manchester… so anyone who was on the scene who knew us travelled to Preston to see us because we’d never done a gig in town…and then there was a big contingent of kids who went to this venue in Preston every week… so as soon as we started playing it was obviously there was a Manchester section and a Preston section and it was just waiting for a spark...
Mani was there? Adge had a crew? There was a load of people from Manchester and I’m sure Steve was involved in that. I saw Mani at the Warehouse gig but not at Clouds...
Ro Newton/NME? Boy, she didn’t like it. She came down and then there was a proper fight at the gig. It all kicked off. She interviewed us afterwards and she was horrified by the violence, I was as well. None of us are fighting people. We weren’t scare of it but it was horrible basically. She interviewed us afterwards and she took this line where she was saying that was totally horrible, surely you can’t condone that in anyway. She thought in some way we’d encouraged it, which we hadn’t done. We got up and started playing and it all kicked off. It felt like she was attacking us for instigating it when we hadn’t done. Ian wasn’t condoning it but he wasn’t agreeing with her it was outrageous and horrible, he was playing devil’s advocate a bit and she took umbrage to it… I think she hated us. She thought we were celebrating that. Whereas if you were going out in Manchester at the time, shit like that happened all the time. I thought afterwards we’ve upset the wrong person there; she got a job on the Whistle Test and did really well... she ain’t going to help us obviously… And then Howard used the first paragraph of the review? That’s Howard being McLaren-esque, using it as a positive attention-grabbing thing rather than a slag off…
Sputnik… Love Missile F1-11? What we used to do when we first started playing the early gigs was instead of just getting up and going 1234 and just start playing the tunes, and we sort of robbed it from the Pistols this... when the Pistols were on So it Goes… they started playing off a load of racket before they did the song… and they used to do it at the gigs, they’d just come on and play a load of racket just to get everyone’s attention… and then they’d play the first song… and we always thought that was a brilliant idea.. so we sort of robbed it and we’d go on and play a discordant mess until everybody in the room was looking at us rather than sat in the bar chatting… and when we got everyone’s attention then we’d go into the first tune… it was just a good way of getting people’s attention… Playing Love Missile was just a total piss-take... we loved Gen X and it was Tony James’ new band and it was stupid really… they had this big hype around them and they’d signed to EMI for £4m which we didn’t believe… but I really liked that single… and it became a sort of joke… we sort of likes it because it was a bit naff… the riff’s just Chuck Berry/Eddie Cochrane… we never went on with the intention of doing that, that never happened… we were doing the gig at Preston, it was a disaster cos it all kicked off, so I think John started playing the riff and we joined in laughing… just to try and make light of the situation…
From January 1990 - The Face Magazine, Issue 16: Interview was conducted backstage 23 November 1989 - Top Of The Pops....The Stone Roses would like to take this opportunity to clear something up. At least their manager would. We're all in the bar now and Tony Wilson is busy pulling all the stops out in another of his overgenerous Mouth Almighty routines when he turns a bit patronising on the Stone Roses and accuses them, in front of this writer, of unprofessionalism at a certain gig due to excessive drug use. The easy camaradie freezes for an instant as the Roses manager reaches out his hands and places it softly but firmly over Wilson's mouth. Then he whispers something in his ear that causes Wilson to stiffen momentarily. Then he turns to me: "You should know the Stone Roses don't take drugs." What he's trying to say is that the Stone Roses don't take drugs in remotely the same way the Happy Mondays take drugs....
Chris Goodwin said: “I can remember one of the early Roses gigs when we went to Preston there was loads of us and the local Preston lads turned up. That was a sight to behold. It was like a Wild West brawl. But there wasn’t too much violence,”
From Lancashire Evening Post, 13 November 2015 - Friday 4:02 pm, by Mike Hill: March 29 1985 - The Stone Roses northern debut took place in the unlikely setting of Preston’s Clouds nightclub (modern day Evoque) and proved a landmark date on the road to fame. After a successful local radio session had raised their profile in Manchester a sizeable crowd headed over and legend has it the gig was marked by a ‘riot’ among travelling fans, locals and bouncers. Preston musician Pete Brown was there, “I personally was unlucky enough to see The Stone Roses play a terrible gig at Clouds in Preston back in 1985, they were pretty goth back then and not very good.”

06 April 1985 Saturday - Oddys, Oldham
Notes: Unconfirmed. This date is from a Thin Line Records Radio Promo Sheet.

1985
Hungry Socks
Clint Boon - Organ
Martin 'Swinny' Swiny - Vocals & Guitar
Andy Housley - Guitar
Mani - Bass
Chris Goodwin - Drums
1985 - Mani joins The Hungry Socks, Rehearsals,
Nelson's Eyeball / Pyscho (The Sonics cover)
Notes: Clint Boon formed band. Mani played bass guitar and Chris Goodwin played drums.
07 January 2018 - thestoneroses.co.uk published an interview with Matt Mead. Notes: ''We interview Matt Mead, who is currently writing the book Flowered Up and who recently was able to share a short clip from The Stone Roses Elephant Stone recording sessions.
Chris Goodwin on Hungry Socks: After that first “show” we kept changing personnel, with Mani on bass (yes, that Mani) Clint Boon on organ, Swinny on vocals and guitar and Andy Housley joining on second guitar. One memorable night when we played at The Tommyfield pub, well, when I say we played, we actually got to soundcheck and every scally, scooter boy, mod etc who were our mates were in the pub and things were getting a little moody with the landlord and our bass player Mani. A massive argument broke out which resulted in Mani telling the landlord to fuck off and lobbing his bass at him, the landlord went crazy shouting the infamous words which have gone down in folklore around the Failsworth area, “I DON’T LIKE LIPPY LITTLE KIDS, AND YOU’RE A LIPPY LITTLE KID” !! That was our signal to trash the gaff, but making sure our gear got out safely. A few bumps and bruises later shaking off the security we ended up at the Irish Land League cabaret club. We asked if we could play there for free beer and we played a set of garage band classics, plus the odd Joy Division song. One very funny moment at this show was the compere for the evening. Clint Boon had a voice effect on the microphone he was speaking into and Clint would make the fella’s voice into a Barry White type baritone, then next thing a high-pitched chipmunk on helium voice. It was hilarious and the punters wanted him to stay on talking rather than watch us play…can’t blame ’em really ha ha…
Notes: Track Info From Storytime with Boon - Episode 16 Podcast

Hungry Socks - 1985 - The Tommyfield Pub, Failsworth *Cancelled*
Hungry Socks - 1985 - Irish Land League Cabaret Club
Nelson's Eyeball / Pyscho (The Sonics cover)
Notes: Chris Goodwin on Hungry Socks: ''...well, when I say we played, we actually got to soundcheck and every scally, scooter boy, mod etc who were our mates were in the pub and things were getting a little moody with the landlord and our bass player Mani. A massive argument broke out which resulted in Mani telling the landlord to fuck off and lobbing his bass at him, the landlord went crazy shouting the infamous words which have gone down in folklore around the Failsworth area, “I DON’T LIKE LIPPY LITTLE KIDS, AND YOU’RE A LIPPY LITTLE KID”!! That was our signal to trash the gaff, but making sure our gear got out safely. A few bumps and bruises later shaking off the security we ended up at the Irish Land League cabaret club. We asked if we could play there for free beer and we played a set of garage band classics, plus the odd Joy Division song. One very funny moment at this show was the compere for the evening. Clint Boon had a voice effect on the microphone he was speaking into and Clint would make the fella’s voice into a Barry White type baritone, then next thing a high-pitched chipmunk on helium voice. It was hilarious and the punters wanted him to stay on talking rather than watch us play…can’t blame ’em really ha ha…''

1985 - John Squire meets Helen at Cosgrove Hall
Notes: John would left his job when the band went to Sweden.
From 27 June 1990 Smash Hits Magazine, John said: Do you live by yourself? "No, I live with me girlfriend, Helen" How long have you been see her? "Bout four years" Are you in love? "Yeah (smiles). She makes costumes for television puppet programmes. Children's stuff. People that do Dangermouse, but she doesn't work on that. She works on little animated films. I used to work there that's how I met her"

08 April 1985 Monday - The Stone Roses drive to Sweden
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Sweden…The Chevy truck…it’s not like a transit van. It’s like a big Chevrolet fucking truck… it’s the sort of tour bus you’d have on your third album and we’re all on the dole... I’m on a YTS… We were all as skint as each other apart from Andy and his parents had a lot… so when he was 17 he owned an MG sports car, brand new, and then he got into, cos he was into rockabilly, he had a 1950s black Chevrolet car… ultra-rare… bought one… his parents bought it for him… and then we started gigging… we do those early gigs in a transit van, nightmare, no seats, sitting on the equipment…not pleasant, not glamorous… and then at some point before we go to Sweden
Andy sells his 50s black Chevy and buys this Chevy tour bus style thing… I don’t know how much it cost… probably more than the house I lived in… he buys that and he’s got money to pay for the petrol… nobody had any money but Andy had access to money… we drove to Sweden in Andy’s unbelievable Chevy tour bus…There was both ends of it... big sports hall and tiny gigs… the story of how we ended up going to Sweden was Ian had gone hitching it around Europe on holiday… a few weeks break him and Michelle went off… he’d met this Swedish guy somewhere in Europe. Ian had done is usual thing of I’m in this band and we’re huge in Manchester, got a big local following and blagged this guy… and he was so impressed they kept in touch and they set up this tour for us with Toxin Toy… they were writing letters and we were going we haven’t got any money and this guy sent us the money to get over there on the ferry… we could have just spent it on beer… all based on this guy meeting Ian and he probably had a demo tape. We got our giros, got in Andy’s van and went. If this guy hadn’t turned up at the train station in Sweden, we’d have been fucked… he took us to this guys’ flat who moved out of his flat let us stay there, all seven of us, and then we had another guy in Toxin Toy bringing us food… it was insane…
First roadie Glen...He’s dead now, Glen Greenough. I think he died of liver failure; he was a big drinker… we weren’t… he was one of them guys that when he starts of the beers, he’s going to batter it… I don’t know where he came from, we met him and he ended up coming to Sweden as our roadie, with his giro… which he spent on the ferry in the casino, blew it all on roulette… before he’d got to Sweden, he said to Howard can you lend me some money… it wouldn’t surprise me if he was doing solvents but no-one called him Gluepot Glen.

10 April 1985 - Reni's 21st birthday

Swedish Tour
10 April 1985 Wednesday - Big Bang Club, Linkoping, Sweden * Support Act(s): Toxin Toy *
(Setlist unconfirmed) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me
Notes: Ian came on-stage telling the crowd ''You're all Swedish twats'' in Swedish. It is noted the band performed an encore for the crowd too. Support band information taken Thin Line Production (PR 14) Poster.
Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: 'When Ian Brown was travelling round Europe, he met a man on a train who promised a Swedish tour to the band. Brown blagged the stranger about his band and wasn’t really expecting a return phone call, but the call came in for seven gigs over a few weeks period. With nothing to lose and the thrill of a proper tour the band and then manager, Howard Jones jumped at the chance.' The first gig was in Linköping, a Swedish logging town, Ian’s mate from the train ride, Andreas Linkaard had not only booked the shows but had previewed the band in the local papers and reviewed the shows as well, it was all part of the service Swedish style. Ian Brown though wasn’t about to reciprocate this charity and remembering Johnny Lydon’s combative band/audience stance he opened the show with the rather confrontational ''you are all Swedish twats’ a phrase that he had managed to pick up in Swedish for maximum effect.'' The review of the gig describes a band buzzing with full confrontational powers. ‘Singer Ian runs around like he had rabies,’ it also points out that ‘he rolls around on the floor’ and liked the band’s music ''because it is violent and has a close collection to punk’ before describing the music as psychedelic punk''.

11 April 1985 Thursday - The Gallery, Manchester
Notes: Cancelled due to the Swedish tour offer. This date is from a Thin Line Records Radio Promo Sheet and claimed 'The Gallery, To be recorded live for Piccadilly Radio'.

11 April 1985 Thursday - Olympia, Norrköping, Sweden * Support Act(s): Toxin Toy *
(Setlist unconfirmed) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young
encore: Fall / Heart On The Staves
encore2: Tell Me
Notes: The band performed two encores at this gig. Support band information taken Thin Line Production (PR 14) Poster. Andreas Kemi was the bands Swedish tour promoter and struggled to get paid from the venues for the band’s appearance at several shows during the short stint.
Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: The next night in Norrkoping was equally good, it had been a few months since that debut gig and no they were touring and enjoying the hospitality of their hosts. The band had never encountered anything like this before, they had stumbled into their tour van with a handful of money scraped together from their giros, had turned up in Sweden penniless and made manager Jones sleep on the floor whilst they lived on breadcrumbs- powered by humour and on the road camaraderie they were also fired up by playing great gigs. “One place where we stayed, we took all the slats out of Howard’s bed and it collapsed when he went to bed in it. I guess it’s funny the first night but we did it every night.” laughs Couzens who also remembers Reni putting slabs of bacon in Jones bed.''
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: ...one of them, there was curfew in the town and you weren’t allowed out if you were under 18 after 9 o’clock… so we had all these kids at the venue and we played the gig and then the police turned up and arrested everybody and we were hiding these kids backstage… it was nuts…

12 April 1985 Friday - Boras, Sweden * Support Act(s): Toxin Toy *
Notes: Date information was taken Thin Line Production (PR 14) Poster.

April 1985 - Howard Jones falls out with the band.
Notes: Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: At one-point relations between the band and heir manager slumped to an all-time low point, with the manager being kicked out of the van in the freezing night of Sweden and left on the roadside. “It was about minus 20 outside,” laughs Couzens. ' There was a row as usual over someone sitting on the bench in the van. I opened the door and kicked him out and left him in the middle of nowhere ha! He had to walk for an hour and a half before he got back to where we were staying. We would be on the nick for food in all the shops that we went to, everyone was at it except for Pete, that’s what Pete was like in the band. Nice guy. He held it all together. He was the mediator, He always mediated in the rehearsal room arguments between the band'. The drummer of the local tour support band luckily was manager of a local supermarket and robbed food for them and they fought like dogs over the scraps, it was the real rock bottom, tough life the sort of backs to the wall situation that shapes up a band as Andy Couzens recalls. “It was our first big proper break. It was where we went serious. We made John give up his day job on the phone from Sweden, Ian was signing on and stopped but, on the road, it was horrible, we were so broke that we became like animals. We fought over food and we fought over money, we took it all out on Howard Jones- he became the band punch bag.''.

19 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden
Notes: Unconfirmed date. Bootleg noted date from the tour.

23 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden * Supporting: The Go-Betweens
Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / Tradjic Roundabout
Notes: As the band walked on stage Ian said: "Sit down back there, we're only doing three". ''Mission impossible, impossible to make a Swedish person laugh''. Reni shouted "Hallelujah!" at the end of the show. The band were not happy with the show.
Ian Brown was interviewed after the show, the recording can be heard on various bootlegs. The Interview includes Ian Brown claiming he wrote all of the lyrics to the band’s early songs.
The date is a mystery, The Go-Betweens discography notes the date as '25 April Stockholm', '24 April Orebro' & '26 April Lundt'
The bootlegs say 19 April 1985.
Bootlegs: Audience Recording - (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "Date: 19th April 1985" Cassette Originally Priced: £1.50, Running Time (Approx): 15 mins) Tape: Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Trust A Fox / Ian Brown Interview
Bootleg: Back In 1985 () CD-R *noted as 19 April 1985
Bootleg: Lilla Marquee, Stockholm, Sweden 19/04/85 (and Interview) - CD-R
Bootleg: They Were So Young...85 (EXP, Expire) (11 September 1985 - Vive Le Rock Exhibition, The Embassy Club - So Young / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me - listed as '19 April 1985' 23 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden - Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / Tragic Roundabout - listed as '1985 Demo' 24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session - I Wanna Be Adored-Heart On The Staves - listed as '02 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University' probably 22 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University - So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me)
Bootleg: Live In Concert 1985 (Black and white paper printed inner, photo of Ian on stage 1989.) 02 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University - Misery Dictionary (So Young) / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / Adore (I Wanna Be Adored) / So Young (Fall) / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me - 19 April 1985 - Marquee, Stockholm (23 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / Trust A Fox (Tradjic Roundabout) / (Band Then Walked Off!) +Interview - 11 September 1985 - Vive Le Rock Exhibition, The Embassy Club, 7 Old Bond Street, W1, London - Here It Comes / Misery Dictionary (So Young) / All I Want / Adored (I Wanna Be Adored) / Tell Me / This Is The One / Getting Plenty

25 April 1985 - Kollingsborg, Stadion, Stockholm, Sweden * Support Act(s): Toxin Toy *
(Setlist unconfirmed) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me
Notes: Date was listed as 21 April 1985 on the Thin Line Production (PR 14) Poster.
From 2001 - I Am Without Shoes Exclusive Andy Couzens Interview: IAWS: What was the most bizarre gig the Roses ever played during your spell with them? Was it the gig at McOnagles, Dublin, in 1986? AC: Yeah, a mad night, but all the gigs were. The night in Sweden where Ian sucked the barrel of the gun some nutter pulled, or the night the police showed and arrested the whole audience just before we went on, or or or or or - you get the picture.

27 April 1985 - Ultra, Sweden * Support Act(s): Toxin Toy *
Notes: Unconfirmed Date, information was taken Thin Line Production (PR 14) Poster.

29 April 1985 - Kulan Lidingö Stadion, Stockholm, Sweden
(Setlist unconfirmed) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me
Notes: Taken from 'the early days' article by John Robb published 08 April 2011 on louderthanwar.com: ''The last shows saw John Squire’s block lettering first used for the band logo on the poster. The band finally had a logo, the days of being felt tipped onto the end of someone else’s poster were over.''

30 April 1985 - Kulan Lidingö Stadion (Lidingo Stadium), Stockholm, Sweden * Support Act(s): Toxin Toy *
Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me
Notes: Ian changed the lyrics of Nowhere Fast to "Nowhere fast, you're going nowhere fast. Nowhere fast, you're all Swedish twats." This was the last Swedish date of the tour, a relief to the band. Date information was taken Thin Line Production (PR 14) Poster.
From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: ''The group recently played some gigs in Sweden which, they say, went down very well. So, well they plan to go back soon. "The gigs in Sweden were really different to the ones we've done here", says Reni. "The audience seemed to be really hungry for the music. They've only just started going to see bands over the last few years, so it's all fresh and new to them. I loved the place, it's great to see so many people having a good time." "When the single's out we plan to go back, whether it does well or not." "I think I prefer playing in London" chips in Ian. "In Sweden they like you just because you're there. In London the crowds are really cool and stand back. I prefer an audience who stand there staring with blank faces, totally shocked because we just go on stage and go berserk, even if there's hardly anyone there. It just winds me up, so I think we do a better show when people are more antagonistic to you than if they love you."
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Toxin Toy saved our arses… we’d have been skint and deported after a week without them. They organised a proper tour bus, organised all the kids, fed us, convinced some guy to give up his flat to let us stay there… they were too nice for their own good really… there’s no way we would have done that for an unknown band from Sweden coming here… give up your flat and let them stay in it? Fucking no chance man. It’s totally different from doing a gig every few weeks; we became a proper band. And when we came back that’s when everyone jacked their jobs in. We realised we’d become a proper band sort of thing…
March 2000 - Jockey Slut Magazine includes a Ian Brown Q&A Session: I know you've got the largest collection of Stone Roses bootlegs - why? James Lavelle. "When the Roses split up I thought, 'What am I going to do now?'. I thought, 'I'll collect the bootlegs'. The best one I've got is in Sweden in '85 when we were due to support this Swedish punk band and thought 'We're not going to support some crappy punk band'. They said, 'It's OK, you can headline. Go on at 11 o'clock.' So we came on at 11 and the hall was empty. The last bus was at 11, the last train was at 11. We played to two people and one of them was tidying the chairs up."
Bootleg: Incomplete (missing So Young) - Ultimate Live Rarities (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "*IAWS exclusive discoveries - guaranteed best quality recordings you'll find* Sound Quality: A / B / B respectively - Stockholm is a soundboard recording, mostly superb quality - hear Ian change loads of the lyrics to berate the Swedish crowd! There are a few harsh glitches on "Fall" though. Manchester is a great audience recording that captures the ambience of the gig really well. The Patrol demos sound a bit rough round the edges but are still very clear." CD Originally Priced: £11.00, Running Time (Approx):80 mins) CD-R - 30 April 1985 - Kulan Lidingö Stadion (Lidingo Stadium), Stockholm, Sweden (Stockholm Lindigo Stadium, 30th April 1985) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me - 10 May 1985 - International 1, 47 Anson Road, Manchester, M14 (Manchester International, 10th May 1985) Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Trust A Fox / Tell Me / encore: I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty - Rehearsal, Stockport, 1980 (Line-up: Andy Couzens: Vocals, John Squire: Guitar, Ian Brown: Bass, backing vocals, Simon Wolstencroft: Drums) Jail Of The Assassins / Too Many Tonnes
Bootleg: Cassette / CD-R
Bootleg: FLAC (Johnky transfer)

M - May 1985 - On the cover of City Life, Issue 31.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Things are going well and things are back-firing, the Ro Newton thing back-fired, the City Life thing back-fired… we’ve become this anti-Factory thing, so we’ve alienated the Tony Wilson crew… it was like that all the time.

10 May 1985 - International 1, 47 Anson Road, Manchester, M14 * Support Act(s): It's Immaterial * Ticket Price: £1.50 *
Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Trust A Fox / Tell Me /
encore: I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty
Notes: Dougie James was the original owner of The International, before Gareth Evans came along. The International's venue was previously known as the Oceans 11 Club. The venue is now a shop. During the Blood On The Turntable documentary it was known as 'Venus Foods'.
Tom Jones 'It's Not Unusual' was played before the band came on.
Richard Ingram (Vancouver, Canada) said: ''The second time I saw them would have been the 10 May 1985 gig at Manchester International, but I drank so much that I had to leave before they came on. Ended up punching my hand through the door at my rented pad because I couldn't find my key. I later discovered that it had been in my pocket all along.'' Tom Jones's 'It's Not Unusual' was used as the intro tape.
Noel Gallagher was at this show too, he said: ''Ian had a harlequin shirt on and a walking stick and slicked back hair, like Dracula.''
Gareth Evans & Matthew Cummins co-owned and ran the International Club 1 & 2. Gareth expressed interest in the band with current manager Howard Jones at this show. Matthew Cummins was Gareth's business partner and brother-in-law too. Matthew co-managed the band and the International venues too.
From Blood On The Turntable BBC TV Documentary, Gareth Evans said: A lot of the so-called Manchester music scene, this probaby includes Tony Wilson, Howard Jones, they didn't know about my background. I mean, remember, I had Keith Moon in a Ford Zephyr driving around Manchester...
From 2001 - I Am Without Shoes Exclusive Andy Couzens Interview: IAWS: At the International in May 1985 is it true that Gareth Evans paid all the Chorlton Gladiators Scooter Club £5.00 each to cause a bit of a rumpus?
AC: I doubt it, Gareth wasn't managing us then. But there was always some trouble without help like that!
Bootleg: Ultimate Live Rarities (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "*IAWS exclusive discoveries - guaranteed best quality recordings you'll find* Sound Quality: A / B / B respectively - Stockholm is a soundboard recording, mostly superb quality - hear Ian change loads of the lyrics to berate the Swedish crowd! There are a few harsh glitches on "Fall" though. Manchester is a great audience recording that captures the ambience of the gig really well. The Patrol demos sound a bit rough round the edges but are still very clear." CD Originally Priced: £11.00, Running Time (Approx):80 mins) CD-R - 30 April 1985 - Kulan Lidingö Stadion (Lidingo Stadium), Stockholm, Sweden (Stockholm Lindigo Stadium, 30th April 1985) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me - 10 May 1985 - International 1, 47 Anson Road, Manchester, M14 (Manchester International, 10th May 1985) Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Trust A Fox / Tell Me / encore: I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty - Rehearsal, Stockport, 1980 (Line-up: Andy Couzens: Vocals, John Squire: Guitar, Ian Brown: Bass, backing vocals, Simon Wolstencroft: Drums) Jail Of The Assassins / Too Many Tonnes
Bootleg: Tape (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "*IAWS discovery - recorded from master - guaranteed lowest generation you'll find*. This bootleg was bought immediately after the gig, outside the International by a guy who went to the gig and then sold it to me (Will Odell). Simply amazing quality for the time - must have been done from the mixing desk. Miles ahead of anything else from the time. Hear Reni's "Keith Moonisms" full-on! Vocals are too high in the mix and guitars are weedy, but that was more to do with the sound on the night rather than the recording itself." Cassette Originally Priced: £3.50, Running Time (Approx): 50) Tape - Intro (It's Not Unusual) / Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit / Tradjic Roundabout / I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty / So Young / Fall / Heart On The Staves / Trust A Fox / Tell Me / encore: I Wanna Be Adored / Getting Plenty

1985 - 'Garage Flower Sessions 1985' Garage Flower, Recording Sessions
I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / This Is The One
Notes: Tape simply labelled 'Garage Flower Sessions 1985'. Includes both proposed, unreleased, Thin Line singles. I Wanna Be Adored was the second proposed single whilst This Is The One was the third for Thin Line. John created artwork for both initial releases but the tracks never saw release. Their debut So Young / Tell Me was delayed and the LP release was dropped.
During an Interview after the 23 April 1985 show with Ian Brown, Ian claimed he wrote all of the lyrics to the band’s early songs.
From May 1990 - Sky Magazine, Jon Wilde article: Hannett recalls, “They didn’t seem to dislike the recordings so much at the time. The whole thing was cooled by their relationship with Howard I think. At that time they were just sorting their musical ideas out. That early stuff is very hard-nosed. Very rough. That’s how they were at the time.”
2013 - David Wood: In all I think Martin had recorded five tracks with The Stone Roses but by the time it came to the editing, he'd had got it down to three. These were the two tracks that made it on to the release called 'So young' and 'Tell me’ And the track that didn't was 'I Wanna Be Adored'....
According to Andy Couzens in 1991 - Rock CD Magazine "We did the 12" with Martin and about four weeks later he came flying over in his usual drugged state and just managed to babble out 'I've booked Strawberry Studios for six weeks, let's do some stuff. We did about 14 tracks mixed 'e,. Ian and I were going in the wrong directions...'"
My personal 12inch So Young record included a 'Music Industry Media Services Appearing' promo press sheet. The address was '61-71 Collier Street, London, N1 9B' with a contact name 'Scott Pieri..' which is cut off due to the copier. The interesting part is 'Stone Roses have recorded nine more tracks with Hannett after one month in the studio and have plenty of good new material for radio sessions etc. Recently they did a live session for Piccadilly Radio - The first such session for almost a decade. Vat no. 404 4919 61.'
Bootleg: The Complete Stone Roses Demo Collection - (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "Piccadily Radio 1985, Garage Flower Sessions 1985, Ian and John acoustic c. 1986, Stone Roses Demos 1987, TSR recordings 1989" Running Time (Approx): 65 mins, Cassette, originally priced: £5.25) Tape - (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session, Piccadilly Studios, Manchester) I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On The Staves / Tell Me - 1985 - Garage Flower Sessions 1985 - I Wanna Be Adored - harder version (Garage Flower) / Here It Comes -harder version (Garage Flower) / This Is The One (Garage Flower) - Acoustic, c.1986 - She Bangs The Drums - acoustic, with different lyrics, song structure (Ian+John acoustic) / Waterfall - acoustic, with different singing notes (Ian+John acoustic) - Demo, Bredbury, Manchester, 1986 (1986 - Yacht Club Studios, Bredbury, Stockport) The Hardest Thing In The World - different lyrics (87 demo), Chorlton, Manchester, 12th December 1986 (12 December 1986 - The Basement, Stockton Road, Chorlton, Manchester) Elephant Stone / Sun Still Shines / Demos, Manchester, Early 1988 (June 1988 - Coconut Grove Studios, Stockport or 1988 - Acetate Versions. Waterfall (1st Mix) June 1988 - Recording Sessions, Battery Studios, 1 Maybury Gardens, Willesden, North London, NW10 2NB) Waterfall / Shoot You Down - (12 December 1986 - The Basement, Stockton Road, Chorlton, Manchester) Going Down / Sugar Spun Sister - Demo, Battery Studios, London, January 1989 (January 1989 - Album Recording Session, Battery Studios, 1 Maybury Gardens, Willesden, London, NW10 2NB) Elizabeth My Dear
Bootleg: Complete Early Demo Tracks (1995, Made In Japan, 3D Reality 'Rare Recordings By Your Favourite Artists', Cat. No. 3D-SR-001) (This first of many britpop related releases by the Japanese label. The Roses would see another three releases on the label. CD is sourced from Vinyl bootlegs Top Of The World Volume One & Two) CD
Bootleg: And On The Sixth Day Whilst God Created Manchester...The Lord Created The Stone Roses (November 1989. Vinyl White Label. Matrix B-Side: B. The release was mentioned in May 1990 - Sky Magazine article.) ''The following tracks are all taken from various demos/sessions:'' Tragic Roundabout (Tradjic Roundabout) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Misery Dictionary (So Young) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Mission Impossible (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Trust A Fox (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / All I Want (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Fall (not listed on sleeve) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Gettin' Plenty (You Can Have Me, Wherever You Want Me) (Getting Plenty) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Heart On The Staves (fades out 2:45) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / I Wanna Be Adored - Heart On The Staves (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Tell Me (not listed on sleeve) (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Waterfall (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / / Elephant Stone (with different words) (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / Shoot You Down (Drum Machine version) (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / (less than a second cut off from The Hardest Thing In The World (1986 - Yacht Club Studios, Bredbury, Manchester) / This Is The One (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / (Song For My) Sugar Spun Sister (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / The Sun Still Shines (listed but not included)
Bootleg: Top Of The World Volume One (1990. World Records Company. ‎Catalogue Number: TOTW 1) - Vinyl LP
Bootleg: Top Of The World Volume Two (1990. World Records Company. ‎Catalogue Number: TOTW 2) - Vinyl LP

24 May 1985 - The Gallery, Manchester
Notes: Secret Show, the band used the pseudo name ''The Bone Noses'' and The Stone Bozos.
From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: ''What's the idea of the secret gigs - why do them? "It means we have total control over everything", explains John. "We can play places where there's no bouncers, no law, no over-priced drinks and anyone can come along, under-18 and or over and have a good time." "We could have started off playing gigs at the Venue or the Gallery, but I can't see how that could be an advantage for the band", says Ian. "It would be a disadvantage to the band, because it's small-time and that's not how we think."

June 1985 - Rehearsals, Hulme
Notes: Not sure if this was a rehearsal room or a home rehearsal space. It wasn't uncommon for the band to rehearse through the night.

Ian and John attend The Jesus & Mary Chain - 25 June 1985 Tuesday - The Hacienda, Manchester * Support Act(s): Primal Scream, The Pastels, Meat Whiplash
Notes: John Squire owned 'You Trip Me' with the television screen sleeve.
Karen Parker played drums for The Jesus & Mary Chain at this show. She played because Bobby Gillespie had hurt his hand the night before. Karen sang backing vocals on The Jesus & Mary Chain's 'Just Like Honey' recording too.
From John Squire Interview 13 June 2007 - XFM Manchester Session Interview:
The next song you’ve got for us is by the Jesus & Mary Chain. Which one is this? JS: This is from Psychocandy, it’s called ‘My Little Underground’.
The Mary Chain must have been formed around the same time as the Roses; 1984-ish? JS: I think they were pretty well established before we were known nationally. They were a big influence, they really opened my eyes, They were like a reconnection with the music I’d initially got into; I could hear the Beach Boys in those chord changes and melodies, I could hear the Shangri-Las and the Ronettes and for me it made melodies – pop melodies – relevant again. After listening to the Mary Chain I found I could start to write proper songs. (XFM play My Little Underground from Psychocandy album)
We were talking while that song was playing about a gig the Mary Chain did at the Hacienda. There were only about two hundred people there if my memory is right. And three hundred bouncers… JS: Yeah, it was just after that gig in London when the band had trashed or the crowd had trashed some venue in London.
Did the crowd trash the band!? JS: I don’t think I can remember the details! They were an influence on you at that time, just before the Roses broke. That Creation Records sound – the Mary Chain and early Primal Scream – a lot of that did feed into a lot of the bands that were around at that time. We had no pop sensibility in our music until I heard the Mary Chain; they really knocked me into shape.

04 July 1985 - The Underground, 21 Hight Street, Croydon, Surrey * Doors Open: 21:00-02:00 * Ticket Price: £3 * Supporting: Doctor And The Medics
Notes: Yes, the same Dr & The Medics who sang 'Spirit In The Sky'. Resident DJ Pete Fox played between sets.
Peter Garner said: "I remember the girls in Dr And The Medics putting their wigs on in the dressing room, it was pretty funny... At the time we would play anywhere but not in a pub."

20 July 1985 Saturday - Manchester Flower Show 1, Warehouse 1, Fairfield Street, Manchester * Doors Open: 23:00, Stage Time: Between 01.30am - 03.00am (21 July 1985) * Ticket Price: £2.00 *
'Reni Intro' / Heart On The Staves / Fall / So Young / I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / Tradjic Roundabout / Open My Eyes (The Nazz cover) / Getting Plenty / Tell Me
Notes: Warehouse 1 was a room close to Piccadilly Train Station, Steve Adge hired and paid British Rail for the venue, claiming the venue was for filming purposes. The band apparently came on and performed at 03.00am but a review from Melody Maker said 01.30am. The warehouse party ended at 05.00am, mainly due to the lack of booze and there was no toilet at the venue.
Reni started the show with a drum solo, sometimes labelled as 'Reni Rumble' on bootlegs. Only known performance of The Nazz cover 'Open Your Eyes'. Mani was in the audience for the show and he can even be seen on the video footage too. The Smiths drummer Mike Joyce & Noel Gallagher were also at the show too.
The show was organised by Steve Adge & Mark of Blackmail Records. Steve Adge would later become the bands tour manager. Tickets were sold with instructions to phone Spirit Studios on the night to find out where the gig was. Tickets had pennies taped to the back.
See Media for 1985 - Melody Maker Magazine, Auss Parsons article.
From 23-30 December 1989 - Sounds Magazine Interview: He (John) also remembers their Warehouse days with affection.“It was for people who liked staying out all night after The Hacienda. I mean we wouldn’t go onstage till about four or five in the morning. It was all Manchester people.” That first gig on Fairfield Street found a place in Mancs folklore. Brown also remembers it as the night his Hulme flat was burgled but, like they say, out of chaos comes order and a dedicated Mancs following was secured.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: You also organised all-night parties…. These were around ’86. A guy called Steve, who became our tour manager, organised them in the old railway arches in Fairfield Street in Manchester. We used to hire it off British Rail and tell them it was for a party – 3000 people. We had DJs as well. We advertised it as the Flower Show Part 1/Part2/Part3. Then we got our mates to hang outside night-clubs at tow in the morning with little flyers showing people where it was...
Ian Brown said: “It was Steve [Adge] who started the warehouse parties. He put the three warehouse shows on which started everything. He said, ‘I got the place in Fairfield Street behind Piccadilly train station, I was thinking of doing a party. It’s called, The Flower Show and I want a band to play. Are you up for it?'”
Catherine Walsh said: ''We had got our tickets from Steve Adge, a Rockabilly, "Daddy Adge", who was a regular at the Ritz on alternative night. I remember the ticket had a penny carefully sellotaped to the small bit of paper - "A penny back" the ticket said. We met outside an old warehouse on Fairfield St, Manchester. Inside was... well, a basic run of the mill warehouse. My first illegal warehouse party and my first Roses gig. It was so cold but the excitement made me forget, I stood near the one and only heater. I overheard someone say, "They will do really well, especially as the band's singer is so good looking, top front man!" We met up with my boyfriend Rob Hampson (Rob the Bob) mingling amongst the punks and rockabilly’s. We danced around a little, Manchester's cool were dancing to Joy Division, Smiths, Bunnymen, The Fall, Bow Wow Wow and so off we went jumping and shuffling about on the stone floor. About 3am a group of young, skinny boys set up their rig at the front of a room off from the main warehouse. There was no stage so we got as close as we liked. The young Ian and his band played their early tracks - there were not many, and we wanted more!''
Bootleg: Manchester Flower Show 1 (sourced from video) Audience Recording
Bootleg: Back In 1985 (sourced from video) CD-R
Bootleg: The Ultimate Live Rarities (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell)) Audience Recording CD
Video Bootleg: Manchester Flower Show 1 (Duncan Goddard Source, VHS Master. "Duncan Goddard said in relation to stone roses 20july1985: had a few enquiries about this. bits of it have emerged over the years, & I understand there was a load of vhs copies made at the time, including one I watched myself in early 1990, a few days after the 'paint' incident at silvertone's office... I was staying in manchester that weekend, & went out with ian's then g/f, a mate of mine from working in liverpool. we ended up back at john's house, where we watched this with helen (john's mrs) & john's brother. I went upstairs for a wazz & there was a tin of paint on the top step. a few years later, someone who knew the cameraman & who knew I knew ian, handed me the master tape (a umatic cassette). so. here it is.") Amateur Audience Video Recording

Video Bootleg: Manchester Flower Show 1985 / Manchester Hacienda 1985 (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "*IAWS discoveries - recorded from master - guaranteed lowest generation you'll find* Manc Flower Show shot in colour from side of the stage, featuring good close ups of all Roses apart from Andy Couzens, who is at the far side of the stage. Hacienda gig filmed well, with plenty of close ups and steady camerawork. Stills from the videos can be seen here and here, though the stills do not doing the moving picture justice." VHS Originally Priced: £16, DVD £18 Running Time (Approx): 70mins) Manchester Flower Show (40 mins): Pre gig malarky from fans, inc. one Gary Mounfield - Heart On The Staves / Fall / So Young / I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / Tradjic Roundabout / Open My Eyes (The Nazz cover) / Tell Me - Manchester Hacienda: (30 mins) Fall / Heart On The Staves / So Young / I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / All I Want / Mission Impossible / Getting Plenty / Tell Me

Video Bootleg: Garage Flower 1985 (Footstomp, FSVD-058, NTSC *appears to be a Japanese copy of the above IAWS / stoneroses.net (Will Odell) DVD-R) DVD-R
Bootleg: TV Appearances Compilation + Manchester 1985 Gig (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). Originally Priced: £17.00) Video (PAL, NTSC) - Running Time (Approx): 80 mins (TV appearences) / 30 mins (Manchester 85) - Ian and John interview 1988 - Elephant Stone / Waterfall on The Other Side Of Midnight show, 1989 / I Wanna Be Adored (Manchester Hacienda, February 1989) - Very short Reni interview (Backstage, Hacienda) - Sugar Spun Sister (Hacienda) / She Bangs The Drums (Slo-Mo Promo) / Longish Ian and John interview, 1989 / She Bangs The Drums (Blackpool Promo) / Rapido Interview (uncut), October 1989 / Fools Gold on TOTP (November 1989) / Made Of Stone (Late Show - Power Cut, November 1989) / Fools Gold (Promo) / Elephant Stone (Promo) / Fools Gold mimed on Satellite TV, and interview with all four Roses / One Love (Promo) / I Wanna Be Adored (Promo) / Waterfall (OSM - improved quality version, but only half the performance) / Love Spreads (Promo) / Ten Storey Love Song (Promo) / Short MTV Interview / News on MTV of Reni leaving / Love Spreads (Feile Festival, August 1995) - Breaking Into Heaven (Feile Festival) / Recording Love Spreads live version for the Help! Album / Begging You (Promo) / Interview with Mani after leaving the Roses / Sally Cinnamon (Promo) / Love Spreads (US Promo, unedited) / Ten Storey Love Song (Unedited promo, without special effects!) / Love Spreads (Finished US Promo) / Love Spreads on Beavis and Butthead / Love Spreads on Red Cross Commercial - 20 July 1985 Saturday - Manchester Flower Show 1, Warehouse 1, Fairfield Street, Manchester - So Young / I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / Tradjic Roundabout / Open My Eyes (The Nazz cover) / Tell Me

1985 - Ian Brown moves to Withington
Notes: From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Ian Brown said: I had two and half years in Hulme before I moved back to Withington in mid-85.

1985 - Ian Tilton Photo Session
Notes: Full band photo session. The band's first photo session and Ian's first encounter with the band. The early photo shows the bands style and taste in clothing at the time. Andy & Peter both feature in the photos too. Several images were printed and used for media purposes, including the bands first press photo. The same photo would be used on the IAWS I Am Without SHoes / stoneroses.net bootleg: The Ultimate Rarities.
Ian Tilton said: “We bonded on our first shoot together as none of us wanted to create something boring. We held a mutual appreciation of creating something conceptually different.”

August 1985 - The Stone Roses feature in Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3
Notes: Paula Greenwood worked at Piccadilly Radio & Piccadilly Records. She took an interest in the band after the interview. She also worked as the promotion representative for The International Clubs, both owned by the band future manager Gareth Evans.
Paula interviewed the band and it was included in Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3, See Media for the interiview.

10 August 1985 - Marquee, London
24 August 1985 - Marquee, London
Notes: Unconfirmed date. The band had been banned from the venue previously, they were banned after this show too. See January 1985 - The Marquee Club, London.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: From early 85 at the Marquee… I remember Ian and there being a mic incident and us getting band. But we actually played there again [six months or so later] us getting banned again. We got banned twice, they didn’t realise the second time it was us again. How many bands can say they got banned from the Marquee. They didn’t treat us well, we got paid shit money, it always cost us more because we had to pay petrol down to London and back, we were all skint. We were basically paying money out of our own pockets, which we didn’t have, to go and play somewhere … so when you get treated like shit and it’s costing you money you tend not to be that happy about it. As far as the Marquee was concerned it was you should be paying to play at this prestigious club rather than encouraging bands who were trying to create anything.

15 August 1985 Thursday - The Hacienda, Manchester * Support Act(s): Playne Jayne
Fall / Heart On The Staves / So Young / I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / All I Want / Mission Impossible / Getting Plenty / Tell Me
Notes: Tradjic Roundabout was written on the setlist but Mission Impossible was played instead. During the encore, Ian jumped into the crowd.
Martin Hannett (So Young/Tell Me producer) was at the mixing desk for this gig and recorded the gig on an 8-track. The show was filmed by ikon films but the tape remains unreleased.
The posters claimed that the So Young / Tell Me debut single was already released and available.
From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: "One of the reasons we haven't done many gigs in Manchester is because there aren't enough venues and none of them are worth playing anyway" admits Ian.
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Fall. That one certainly was anti-Factory/Hacienda. It’s difficult because when people talk about Factory and the Hacienda, there’s the 24-Hour Party people view, it was packed out and on one… for the people who used to go when it first opened, it was generally empty, awful sound, freezing cold. It was a bit pretentious. It was nothing like the myth. I think all of us felt that whole Factory thing… we just found it a bit pretentious. Factory completists used to really annoy us, buying things just because it was on factory… it all seemed a bit poncy. Bear in mind we were all into Joy Division and the stuff Martin had done… but it just seemed up its own arse really… it didn’t seem real.
From 2001 - I Am Without Shoes Exclusive Andy Couzens Interview: IAWS: Which of the gigs you played (not just the Roses) was the best for you?
AC: Best Roses - Hacienda 85. Best High - Elland Road with the Mondays 91.
2013 - David Wood wrote: After all the bad mouthing he did about the Hacienda and Factory gang, I was surprised when just before the release of 'So Young' I'd heard the band were playing the Hacienda and Martin was doing the live sound!
Bootleg: The Ultimate Live Rarities (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell)) Audience Recording CD
Bootleg: Manchester Hacienda (sourced from video) Audience Recording
Video Bootleg: Manchester Hacienda (VHS) Amateur Audience Video Recording
Video Bootleg: Manchester Flower Show 1985 / Manchester Hacienda 1985 (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "*IAWS discoveries - recorded from master - guaranteed lowest generation you'll find* Manc Flower Show shot in colour from side of the stage, featuring good close ups of all Roses apart from Andy Couzens, who is at the far side of the stage. Hacienda gig filmed well, with plenty of close ups and steady camerawork. Stills from the videos can be seen here and here, though the stills do not doing the moving picture justice." VHS Originally Priced: £16, DVD £18 Running Time (Approx): 70mins) Manchester Flower Show (40 mins): Pre gig malarky from fans, inc. one Gary Mounfield - Heart On The Staves / Fall / So Young / I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / Tradjic Roundabout / Open My Eyes (The Nazz cover) / Tell Me - Manchester Hacienda: (30 mins) Fall / Heart On The Staves / So Young / I Wanna Be Adored / Here It Comes / All I Want / Mission Impossible / Getting Plenty / Tell Me
Video Bootleg: Garage Flower 1985 (Footstomp, FSVD-058, NTSC *appears to be a Japanese copy of the IAWS DVD-R) DVD-R

The Stone Roses - 19 August 1985 - So Young / Tell Me U.K. Release Date
So Young / Tell Me - Written by John Squire & Ian Brown.
Produced by Martin Hannett. Engineered by Chris Nagle & John Hurst. Recorded and mixed March-May 1985 Yellow Two, Strawberry Studios, Stockport
Format: 12inch White Label Vinyl Promo Only. Catalogue Number: Cartel THIN 001 Thin Line Productions ('19.08.1985' was handwritten on some of the labels)
Format: 12inch Vinyl. Catalogue Number: THIN 001. A Thine Line Production (SR4)
Label: Thin Line Records
Artwork: 'Wreckage' by Johnny, John Squire. Design was by Glenn Routledge at Anagram Studios.
Matrix (Side-A): THIN 001 A-1U-1-1-2 TimTom
Matrix (Side-B): THIN 001 B-1U-1-1-1
'Admit defeat, Yet you're so young'
'You know, I've got to get up today'
Ian - Vocals
Johnny - Lead Guitar
Andy - Rhythm Guitar
Pete - Bass Guitar
Reni - Drums
So Young
Tell Me
Thinline Records. Produced by Martin Hannett.
Notes: The debut release and the band's first 12inch was limited to only 1,200 pressings. The band's manager Howard Jones co-owned Thinline Records, hence the release. Howard Jones used to manage Tony Wilson's The Hacienda Club in Manchester too. He and Martin Hannett funded Thin Line Records as they both left Factory on bad terms. There was a dispute over writing credits, Brown/Squire were credited on the sleeve for writing. Something which angered Andy & Reni. 11 years later, see November 1996, the unreleased Garage Flower album recordings would see release along with 'Brown/Squire/Couzens' song writing credits for several tracks. Apparently, the release date was planned by Thin Line Records to rival Factory's Happy Mondays' debut single. Engineer Chris Nagle would later go on to produce and work with The Charlatans, Inspiral Carpets and many more bands.
Apparently the single got to No. 2 on the UK Independant charts. Depsite pressing less than 1200 copies, 200 copies of which were for promotional reasons. 500 copies alone reportedly being sold by the independant record retailer Piccadilly Records in Manchester, with thanks to Cartel's distribution around the record stores in the area.
The single was originally scheduled for an April release (see 1985 - Unreleased So Young/Tell Me Mixes).
The initial test pressing had pink labels and included a two-page press release. It was housed in a green and purple die-cut Cartel distribution sleeve. There was only 100 pressed at the time and around 10 copies are in circulation at the moment, mostly missing both parts of the press release sheets and the sleeve. At least one copy was dropped off at Piccadilly Radio Station to promote the band (see 31 March 1985).
The 15 August 1985 Hacienda posters claimed that the single was already released and available via Cartel distribution.
There were seven pressings given to the band and Thin-Line too. From research I have only ever seen one press sheet, dated 01 August 1985. There was a copy that sold in January 2017, it included a black and white press photo of The Stone Roses (1985 photo of the band by Ian Tilton with their reflection in the water, an edited image was used the bootleg 'The Ultimate Rarities'). The other was an almost sinister press photo of Martin Hannett peeking through some window blinds. The records runout groove matrix read 'TIMTOM Thinline 001'.
On the Matrix Runout groove my copy reads Side-A (stamped, etched): THIN 001 A-1U-1-1-(x) 2 TIMTOM . The last '-' next to an x in a circle is actually a sideways 1.
Side-B (stamped, etched): THIN 001 B-1U-1-1-1 T/ . The last '-' next to the last 1 is actually a sideways 1.
The front cover artwork was produced by John Squire, who smashed an old transistor radio and then glued the parts together.
So Young came in at number 10 in the Manchester Top 10 NME Indie Page 1985, Chart was supplied by Dave Booth & Alan Maskell, Wild Planet at Cloud 9, Manchester.
The single was breifly mentioned in 02 November 1985 - NME Magazine, under Single Reviews: So Young / Tell Me (Thin Line) - The great lost Martin Hannett produced this record, and a right silk purse too. Pure post-punk 'pocalypse of course, but even that won't persuade me to play this again.
The single would be re-released 1992 as part of a limited-edition boxset 'Compact Disc Singles Collection' with a new sleeve.
My personal 12inch So Young record included a 'Music Industry Media Services Appearing' promo press sheet. The address was '61-71 Collier Street, London, N1 9B' with a contact name 'Scott Pieri..' which is cut off due to the copier. 'Stone Roses formed about one year ago in Manchester and quickly established themselves as an unusual dynamic live band through a series of 'secret' warehouse party/gigs that attracted thousands and resulted in this, their first release, going into the local chart straight at number one'. 'Producer: Martin Hannett ("Father of post-modern neo-Gothic dance music")..."I've never stopped making masters, I just neglected to place them".' The interesting part is 'Stone Roses have recorded nine more tracks with Hannett after one month in the studio and have plenty of good new material for radio sessions etc. Recently they did a live session for Piccadilly Radio - The first such session for almost a decade. Vat no. 404 4919 61.'
2013 - David Wood wrote: Martin got back to me in the August to tell me that I could do some edits soon but I think there was a couple of other youngsters doing some studio stuff for him. The first day back, Martin seemed to be shaking more but I might have just been aware of it a bit more. He started immediately moaning that the band hadn't had enough material so there wasn't going to be as much for me to do as he'd said on the phone. By now he was giving me a bit of petrol money which I was delighted with.
Martin then dropped the bomb shell that we had to finish all the edits on the tracks within a matter of days because Factory were releasing the debut single by the Happy Mondays called Delightful and Martin and Howard's Thinline Records were releasing their first single on the same day...I think Martin and Howard only shipped about twelve hundred copies and Martin told me that the single had (commercially) been a disaster so I'm not sure exactly how many were actually sold. It did well in the local Manchester record shops and got a few reviews in the local press. City Life said something like the release was "not very Manchester" (which could be good or bad) and Zigzag thought that Martin's production was good so I'm sure he was pleased with that. As I drove in to Manchester over the following weeks, I saw quite a bit of Stone Roses stuff all over the place (mainly spray paint!) ...Although in real terms, I did very little to contribute to this release (apart from a steady pair of hands for cutting and splicing), I really liked Martin and he had some great stories about his days recording at Cargo, Arrow and Central Sound Studios, but I found him terribly unpredictable....
Simon Spence's Unused Chapter from his Book 'War & Peace' noted: The Roses, at the time, had an antagonistic approach toward the Factory scene that dominated Manchester....The situation was further aggravated when former Hacienda manager and Factory director, Howard Jones, and Joy Division/New Order producer (among many others) Martin Hannett, the key musical force behind Factory, left the label to respectively manage and produce the Roses. In fact, Wilson deliberately scheduled the release of the first Mondays’ record, in August 1985; an EP called Forty Five, to coincide with the release of the first Roses record, So Young (released on Hannett and Jones’ new label Thin Line, or ‘Renegade Records’ as Wilson dubbed it). Wilson would spend the next few five years attempting to promote a war of the bands - between the Roses and the Mondays - that only existed in his head. "
From August 1985 - Acrylic Daze Fanzine, Issue 3 Paula Greenwood Interview: Who is the main songwriter of the band and what are the lyrics about? "I write all the lyrics" says Ian. "Mainly the lyrics are about personal experiences, about my friends or about how I feel. The single 'So Young' is about when I lived in Hulme, everyone who lived there seemed to think it was great to stay in bed until tea time. It's just a waste of life. I'm saying you've got to get out of bed today. They could be doing something more worthwhile with their time." ''Is there a release date for the single? "It should be out on August 19th on our managers label, Thin Line", explains Pete. "We're hopefully going to release it all over the country and sort out European dates to coincide with it." "It's just as important to crack it in Holland or Germany as it is in England" follows Ian. "They seem to be starved of good music over there. It's like a big event when an English or American band tour." "The single was produced by Martin Hannett" says John. "Our manager played him a demo which he really liked and said he wanted to work with us. It's worked out really well. He seems to be in the same frame of mind as us. “The group have made it clear that the single will be released on their managers label, Thin Line. But what do they think about majors and other independent record companies? "There's no difference between independents and majors. There are little leeches and big leeches" says John. "We're going for our own independent so we can keep total control over what we do and put out. There's no way we're going to take shit from any record company."
From 2001 - I Am Without Shoes Exclusive Andy Couzens Interview:
IAWS: The much talked-about argument over songwriting credits which led to you leaving the band happened in 1986, yet how come the band were happy to let Ian and John get songwriting credits for the So Young/Tell Me single, that was released previously, in 1985? AC: The argument actually happened in 1985 just prior to the release of So Young and was presented as a "fait a complie". Reni and I both walked but were persuaded to return on the promise that it was just an image thing, nothing had changed and all proceeds would be split equally. It took me a year to realise that these people who had been my closest friends and who I trusted implicitly were in fact lying! So I left. (The naive human condition that is hope.)
From Ian Brown Q Magazine Interview by Howard Johnson: HJ: What's the worst record you've ever made? IB: The first Stone Roses single, So Young. It's not up to standard and the sound's no good. I'm not embarrassed by it though. Whenever I hear it I think of producer Martin Hannett who was working on it with us. What a top bloke he was.

1985 - Garage Flower Session, Yellow Two, Strawberry Studios, Stockport
Getting Plenty / I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On Staves / This Is The One /
Hello (Trust A Fox) / All I Want / Fall
Tape Source
Side: Getting Plenty / I Wanna Be Adored / Heart On Staves / This Is The One
Side: Hello (Trust A Fox) / All I Want / Fall
Notes: These tracks all come from the same tape source, I presume they come from the same recording session too. All are the same versions which appear on the 1996 Garage Flower release, although the source for the CD release is more superior than the bootleg cassettes which circulate. This Is The One is the original recording featured here and does not have any guitar overdubs. I presume they recorded guitar overdubs during the second session, along with Here It Comes.
My personal 12inch So Young record included a 'Music Industry Media Services Appearing' promo press sheet. The address was '61-71 Collier Street, London, N1 9B' with a contact name 'Scott Pieri..' which is cut off due to the copier. The interesting part is 'Stone Roses have recorded nine more tracks with Hannett after one month in the studio and have plenty of good new material for radio sessions etc. Recently they did a live session for Piccadilly Radio - The first such session for almost a decade. Vat no. 404 4919 61.'
Chris Nagle is credited for Engineering the debut So Young / Tell Me single and online is credited for engineering the entire Garage Flower LP. It is unconfirmed whether this is true.
Andy Couzens said: “Martin was giving us what we thought was speed, but they were ‘speedballs’, which is a very different thing – coke and smack. And we were snorting it.”
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: And you worked with Martin Hannett, who’d worked with Joy Division… IB: We caught him at the wrong time. He was a junkie, basically, a lovely, real nice man, but out to lunch 23 hours a day. He was a good laugh but it was hard working with him. We did a month in the studio for the experience because he had some free time in Strawberry Studios. It wasn’t to release an LP...
Bootlegs: The First Coming (CFC) CD
Bootleg: Complete Early Demo Tracks (1995, Made In Japan, 3D Reality 'Rare Recordings By Your Favourite Artists', Cat. No. 3D-SR-001) (CD is sourced from Vinyl bootlegs Top Of The World Volume One & Two) CD
Bootlegs: Demos (Catalogue Number: SEM130) (Copy of Complete Early Demo Tracks) CD
Bootleg: The Demo Album - Vinyl LP
Bootleg: And On The Sixth Day Whilst God Created Manchester...The Lord Created The Stone Roses (November 1989. Vinyl White Label. Matrix B-Side: B. The release was mentioned in May 1990 - Sky Magazine article.) ''The following tracks are all taken from various demos/sessions:'' Tragic Roundabout (Tradjic Roundabout) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Misery Dictionary (So Young) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Mission Impossible (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) (August 1984 - Spirit Studios) / Trust A Fox (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / All I Want (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Fall (not listed on sleeve) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Gettin' Plenty (You Can Have Me, Wherever You Want Me) (Getting Plenty) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Heart On The Staves (fades out 2:45) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / I Wanna Be Adored - Heart On The Staves (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Tell Me (not listed on sleeve) (24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session) / Waterfall (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / / Elephant Stone (with different words) (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / Shoot You Down (Drum Machine version) (1987 unconfirmed, see Strawberry Studios) / (less than a second cut off from The Hardest Thing In The World (1986 - Yacht Club Studios, Bredbury, Manchester) / This Is The One (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / (Song For My) Sugar Spun Sister (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / The Sun Still Shines (listed but not included)
Bootleg: Demo Album Vol. 1 (1990. HTZ. Hard Tymez Productions. Hard Tymez Productions Team: U.F.O., Shy Da ''Hat'', Reckless Da Tracy, Jaz-Da Mack. ‎Catalogue Number: STONE LP 2) White Label. Matrix A-Side: STONE L-P-2-A1 MT . Matrix B-Side: STONE L-P-2-B-1 MT) Getting Plenty (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Adored (I Wanna Be Adored) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Heart On The Stave (Heart On The Staves) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / This Is The One (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Trust A Fox (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / All I Want (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / I Wanna See You Fal (Fall) (1985 - Garage Flower Session) / Sally Cinnamon (1986 - Monitor Mix aka 7inch Version) / Elephant Stone (with different words) (12 December 1986 - Chorlton) / The Sun Still Shines (12 December 1986 - Chorlton)
Official: 1996 - Garage Flower

27 August 1985 - 01 September 1985 - Garage Flower Session, Strawberry Studios, Stockport, Manchester
Just a Little Bit / Heart On Staves
TBC: Trust a Fox / Tradgic Roundabout / Heart On Staves / Fall / Just a Little Bit / Haddock / Mission Impossible
Notes: Another version of Heart On Staves. Unconfirmed Second Re-Recording Session. According to a bootleg ''Garage Flower Recording Session 2 Recorded Strawberry Studios, Stockport, Manchester, March 1985.''
My personal 12inch So Young record included a 'Music Industry Media Services Appearing' promo press sheet. The address was '61-71 Collier Street, London, N1 9B' with a contact name 'Scott Pieri..' which is cut off due to the copier. The interesting part is 'Stone Roses have recorded nine more tracks with Hannett after one month in the studio and have plenty of good new material for radio sessions etc. Recently they did a live session for Piccadilly Radio - The first such session for almost a decade. Vat no. 404 4919 61.'
Bootleg:
Bootleg: Complete Early Demo Tracks (1995, Made In Japan, 3D Reality 'Rare Recordings By Your Favourite Artists', Cat. No. 3D-SR-001) (CD is sourced from Vinyl bootlegs Top Of The World Volume One & Two) CD
Bootleg: Top Of The World Volume One (1990. World Records Company. ‎Catalogue Number: TOTW 1)
Bootleg: Top Of The World Volume Two (1990. World Records Company. ‎Catalogue Number: TOTW 2)

1985 - The Stone Roses spray paint Manchester town centre
From Blood On The Turntable BBC TV Documentary, Howard Jones said:
I thought it was disgraceful, but I understood there reasons for doing it. They were trying to say in Manchester, The Tony Wilsons of this world F You mate, y'know, people are gonna know we're here.
1998 - Record Collector, December 1997 - Hotel, Park Lane, John Reed Interview/article: RC: There’s also the famous story about you spraying "Stone Roses" all around the city. What’s the true story? IB: Me and Reni decided we’d been ignored for long enough. We’ll cover the city with "Stone Roses". So we sprayed everywhere about seven/eight o’clock at night. That was ‘85/’86. Reni was spaying the front of a library and there was a copper stood just around the corner – but the copper couldn’t see him!

1985 - Lindsay Reade meets The Stone Roses
Notes: It was through Howard Jones & Martin Hannett that Lindsay met the band. She would later co-manage them with Gareth Evans and become a long-term friend to the band. Lindsay was Tony Wilson's ex-wife and friend of New Order (formerly Joy Division). She would introduce the band to future Elephant Stone producer Peter Hook and would also get the band another show at the Hacienda and an appearance on the TV Show OSM too.

11 September 1985 - Vive Le Rock Exhibition, The Embassy Club, 7 Old Bond Street, W1, London * Doors Open: 17:00-03:00am, On Stage: 18:00 * Ticket Price: £2.00 (Members) / £4.00 (Non-members) * Support Act(s): Chiefs Of Relief, D.J. Hamish
Here It Comes / So Young / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me
Notes: This gig was a launch party for Dennis Morris's book on the Sex Pistols, 'Rebel Rock: A Photographic Record Of The Sex Pistols'. Debut performance of This Is The One.
Chiefs Of Relief (Paul Cook, ex-Sex Pistols drummer & ex-Bow Wow Wow members group) headline the show and came on stage at midnight. Poster read 'Vive Le Rock 'Photo exhibition, videos and live music' a celebration of Rebel Rock, the year it all began 1977, the night to remember Sept 11th place to be'. Date is sometimes mislabelled as '13 September 1985' or '09 November 1985'. On all recordings I have heard Here It Comes intro is missing.
Bootleg: London Embassy (Tape) Audience Recording
Bootleg: London Embassy (Tape) (1st gen., from richardbajor collection) Audience Recording
Bootleg: London Embassy Club (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "" Cassette Originally Priced: £2, Running Time (Approx): 25 mins) Here It Comes / So Young / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me - Tape
Bootleg: Back In 1985 ()
Bootleg: They Were So Young...85 (EXP, Expire) (11 September 1985 - Vive Le Rock Exhibition, The Embassy Club - So Young / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me - listed as '19 April 1985' 23 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden - Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / Tragic Roundabout - listed as '1985 Demo' 24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session - I Wanna Be Adored-Heart On The Staves - listed as '02 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University' So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me)
Bootleg: Live In Concert 1985 (Black and white paper printed inner, photo of Ian on stage 1989.) 02 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University - Misery Dictionary (So Young) / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / Adore (I Wanna Be Adored) / So Young (Fall) / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me - 19 April 1985 - Marquee, Stockholm (23 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / Trust A Fox (Tradjic Roundabout) / (Band Then Walked Off!) +Interview - 11 September 1985 - Vive Le Rock Exhibition, The Embassy Club, 7 Old Bond Street, W1, London - Here It Comes / Misery Dictionary (So Young) / All I Want / Adored (I Wanna Be Adored) / Tell Me / This Is The One / Getting Plenty

02 October 1985 - Manchester University, Students Union, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PR
Notes: Unconfirmed Date. Bootleg recordings quite often confuse the 02 November 1985 show with this one.
Notes: See 02 November 1985. Richard Ingram (Vancouver, Canada) said: ''There was an earlier gig at Manchester University than the one in November 1985. It must have been sometime in the spring of '85, and instead of being in the large hall downstairs it was on the second floor in a much smaller room. I don't think there were more than around 50 people there. They were still aiming for a sound not all that far from punk at that stage.''

26 October 1985 - The Riverside, London * Supporting: That Petrol Emotion
Notes: Despite Johnson’s best efforts at guerrilla A&R and media manipulation, when he last packed the Roses back on their coach to Manchester, it was with nothing more than a bag of peanut butter and Marmite sandwiches. Garry said: “I never saw Ian get depressed about it. Every rejection, he’d shrug his shoulders and say it was their loss. He always had faith. He just knew it would happen one day.”

02 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University, Students Union, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PR * Doors Open: 20:00 * Ticket Prices: £2.50 (Advance/Student Union Price) / £3.00 (On The Door) * Support Act(s): The Brigade
So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me
Notes: Apparently Reni had his arm in plaster after an accident. He played the show with his arm in a sling, playing with one hand but later in the set used both arms.
Howard Jones said: “He kept buying hats until finally he ended up with the bucket hat and everybody said, ‘Oh, actually he looks alright in that one’ “He favoured the spanielecarcd furry ones and eventuallyhe got a proper Swiss one of those and looked quite cool in it. But we’re talking about some bad, bad hats in the beginning. It was like anything to be noticed because obviously he’s at the back of the band. He’s not at the front of the stage and Reni‘s reason for being in a band was to be at the front, actually."
Bootleg: Audience Recording
Bootleg: They Were So Young...85 (EXP, Expire) (11 September 1985 - Vive Le Rock Exhibition, The Embassy Club - So Young / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me - listed as '19 April 1985' 23 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden - Mission Impossible / Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) / Tragic Roundabout - listed as '1985 Demo' 24 March 1985 - Piccadilly Radio Session - I Wanna Be Adored-Heart On The Staves - listed as '02 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University' So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me)
Bootleg: Live In Concert 1985 (Black and white paper printed inner, photo of Ian on stage 1989.) 02 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester University - Misery Dictionary (So Young) / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / Adore (I Wanna Be Adored) / So Young (Fall) / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me - 19 April 1985 - Marquee, Stockholm (23 April 1985 - The Lilla Marquee, Västertorp, Stockholm, Sweden) Mission Impossible / Nowhere Fast (Just A Little Bit) / Trust A Fox (Tradjic Roundabout) / (Band Then Walked Off!) +Interview - 11 September 1985 - Vive Le Rock Exhibition, The Embassy Club, 7 Old Bond Street, W1, London - Here It Comes / Misery Dictionary (So Young) / All I Want / Adored (I Wanna Be Adored) / Tell Me / This Is The One / Getting Plenty

02 November 1985 - The Stone Roses are included in the NME Magazine Single Reviews
Notes: ''THE STONE ROSES - So Young / Tell Me (Thin Line) : The great lost Martin Hannett produced this record, and a right silk purse too. Pure post-punk 'apocalypse of course, but even that won't persuade me to play this again.''

16 November 1985 - Mani's 23rd birthday

22 November 1985 - Manchester University, Academy 2 (Main Debating Hall), Students Union, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PR * Support Act(s): The Brigade
So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me
encore: So Young
Notes: The band had sold 800 tickets, their biggest show to date. Piccadilly Radio were running a competition to win free tickets to the show too. Pete Garner said: It was the first gig where we got out of the van and people carried our gear in for us. There were loads of students helping us to carry our gear in."
The date is often noted as '02 October 1985' or '02 November 1985' and the encore "So Young" recording is incomplete or, usually, missing.
Bootleg: Manchester 1985 (1996. DAT Label. Cat. No.: S-DAT-005. Disc reads: thin line S-DAT-005 Not For Sale Promotional Only. Manufactured By D.A.T.Label Inc. From Master Recording Owned Or Controlled by D.A.T. Label. All Rights Reserved Unauthorized Copying. Matrix: 23449X S-DAT-005 IFPI L602) Silver Factory Pressed CD - Audience Recording - So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want (All I Need Is All I Want) / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall (I Wanna See You Falling) / This Is The One / Getting Plenty (Where Ever You Want) / Tell Me - Bonus Tracks: Fools Gold (The Top Won Remix) / Fools Gold (The Bottom Won Remix)
Bootleg: Manchester University oct.2 1985 + remix CD (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell). "02 October 1985" CD Originally Priced: £10.00, Running Time (Approx):, Cassette originally priced: £2.50) CD / Tape - I presume this is a straight copy of the above DAT Label pressing.) Audience Recording - So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me - Bonus Tracks: Fools Gold (Top Won Remix) / Fools Gold (Bottom Won Remix)
Bootleg: Tape (IAWS I Am Without Shoes / stoneroses.net (Will Odell)) Audience Recording - So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me
Bootleg: Tape - Audience Recording - So Young / Heart On The Staves / Here It Comes / All I Want / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / This Is The One / Getting Plenty / Tell Me / So Young

24 November 1985 - John Squire's 23th birthday

29 November 1985 - Rehearsal, Manchester
Notes: Boy On A Pedestal was likely to have been written during the rehearsal. According to John Robb's biography of the band, the song had only been written the day before the third warehouse show.

30 November 1985 Saturday - Manchester Flower Show 2, Warehouse 3, Arch 99 Warehouse, Temperance Street, Manchester * Doors Open: 23:00 * Ticket Price: £2.00 (20p of which went to Children In Need)
So Young / Here It Comes (False Start) / Here It Comes / Boy On A Pedestal / I Wanna Be Adored / Fall / All I Want / Getting Plenty
Notes: Debut performance of Boy On A Pedestal, the track still remains unreleased today. The gig was cut short as the power supply generator blew up. The promo poster declared the show 'Warehouse 3...Take Two. What a good year for the Roses. (the Video Shoot) ...'. Once again organised by Mark and Steve Adge, of Blackmail Records.
Richard Ingram (Vancouver, Canada) said: ''I can't remember if I went to that 22 November 1985 Manchester University gig, but I was at the second warehouse party (30 November 1985 aka Manchester Flower Show 2). I remember my friend saying that there had been another one over the summer. After the generator blew, Reni threw one of his drums through the window. One of the others trashed his guitar.'' ''Catherine Walsh's eyewitness report on the first warehouse gig mentions tickets with pennies taped to the back. Well, they did that at the second one too.'' ''In order to secure a location for their second warehouse party, the band informed British Rail that they were using the venue to shoot a video.''
Stone Roses fan Karen Ablaze said: ''I remember at the end of the show, Reni leant back and smashed the window at the back of the warehouse. It was really freezing.''
From John Robb’s The North Will Rise Again Book: Pete Garner: We were not musically influenced by the Smiths even songs like ''Boy On A Pedestal'' were nothing like the smiths. The weird thing was it was just another four guys from Manchester- bass, drum, guitar and vocals. Johnny Marr was into the same music and we shared a drummer! We were both into punk then we would take another route. Ironically when the Roses eventually got massive their audience was ex-Smith’s fans! The Roses eventually inherited the mantle of the truly English band. Johnny was a brilliant guitarist. I remember him always being a brilliant guitarist better than John was in the beginning but they were both great in the end. Johnny used to take his guitar to school!
From Simon Spence War & Peace Unedited Peter Garner Interview: Which we never got round to record [Pedestal]… it wasn’t brilliant… it sounds Smiths-esqe the title but I think we were really wary. Bear in mind we changed Misery Dictionary to So Young, changed Nowhere Fast to Respect… we just absolutely didn’t want to be seen as Smiths copyists … totally … not that the band hated them or anything but it wasn’t what we were about.
Bootleg: Manchester Flower Show 2 (Tape) Audience Recording
Bootlegs: Front In (Catalogue Number: SEM141) CD
Bootleg: FLAC (Johnky transfer)

December 1985 Saturday - Manchester Flower Show 3, Warehouse 1, Fairfield Street, Manchester * Doors Open: 20:00 * Ticket Price: £2.00 *
Notes: The police ended the gathering early this time. Warehouse 1 was the same room as the first Flower Show, close to Piccadilly Train Station. The show was organised by Steve Adge & Mark of Blackmail Records, Steve hired & paid British Rail for the venue claiming the venue was for filming purposes. The band apparently played that night but then the party ended shortly after.
Reni collapsed after one of the band’s warehouse parties.
Howard Jones said “After the gig he had what was tantamount to a fit,” “We
had to hold him down in the van. It was incredible, he was dehydrated
and so hyped, he literallywas shaking."
From Melody Maker Magazine, 1987: ''...How on earth did they get there? ''Well, we started playing at warehouse parties around Manchester.'' explains vocalist Ian. ''We'd decide upon a location early in the week, stick a load of posters up around the town advertising our appearance and then there'd be a thousand plus people turn up on the night. That's really where we learned our craft as a live band.'' ''There was one night, for example, when we were playing under Piccadilly Railway Station and the police were outside threatening to break up the party. To be honest, the situation got a little crazy because they'd miscalculated as to how everyone would react. We went on stage just as the tension was about to explode and managed to diffuse the bomb without set but it was touch and go for a while. Unfortunately, that marked the end of the warehouse scene in Manchester.''
Fans said ''This was up in the arches on London Rd. and was hard to find. It was a massive space and I think there was a bonfire and some swings with tyres as you walked in..... anyway, the band were good and I'm not sure if it got stopped by the constabulary later on.''

Garage Flower Alternate Song Titles
All I Want (All I Need Is All I Want)
Fall (I Wanna See You Falling)
Getting Plenty (Wherever You Want) (Draggin' Me Down)
I Wanna Be Adored (Adored)
Just A Little Bit (Nowhere Fast) (Self Respect)
So Young (Misery Dictionary)
Trust A Fox (Hello)
Notes: Simon Spence's Unused Chapter from his Book 'War & Peace' noted: The Roses, at the time, had an antagonistic approach toward the Factory scene that dominated Manchester. An early song, Fall, was an attack on label boss Tony Wilson.
During an Interview after the 23 April 1985 show with Ian Brown, Ian claimed he wrote all of the lyrics to the band’s early songs.

1985 - Garage Flower, Recording Sessions
Stone Roses. (L.P Session) Thin Line Production Tape
Side A:
1: This Is The One (Mastered)
2: Trust A Fox (Mastered) (Bmin)
3: All I Want (Mastered) (E)
4: This Is The One (II)
5: Fall (Mastered) (Dmin)
6: Tradjic Roundabout (Mastered) (B)
7: Mission Impossible (Mastered) (B)
Side B:
1: Getting Plenty (Mastered) (B)
2: I Wanna Be Adored (Mastered) (G)
3: Here It Comes (Mastered) (A)
4: Just A Little Bit (Mastered) (D)
5: Heart On The Staves (Mastered) (B)
Notes: This information was taken from an eBay U.S. auction description September 2020 for an original DAT tape of the 1985 recording sessions ''One of a handful of copies that were recorded from the unreleased (at the time) album produced by Martin Hannett. Recorded in 1985 and taken straight from the DAT. Track details handwritten. All (except one) were later released on the Garage Flower album in 1996. There are 2 appearances of "This Is The One" on this tape. I have listened to both side by side and the difference is negligible. Perhaps some minor adjustment of levels? One does have an "M" checkmark next to it and the other does not. At a guess I would think the M stands for Mastered. I have never listened to the Garage Flower album and do not know where that release's material was sourced from or how the quality on those compares to this version. But I can guarantee this is 100% authentic. I was the first DJ to ever play So Young & Tell Me from the white label in 1985.''
Weirdly the track list denoted the key of the songs too (except This Is The One).
A similar looking Thin Line tape was sold through Omega Auctions for £1000, lot 368 - Stone Roses Rare Demo Cassette Recording Of First Album.
Official Release: February 1996 - Garage Flower ()
From 27 September 2013 - Andy Couzens interview: ''Tell us about the Garage Flower songs - This album represented our first set, with the first song we ever wrote together as the Roses, namely Just A Little Bit (originally called Nowhere Fast), followed by Mission Impossible and Tradjic Roundabout. These were pre-Reni, although obviously he's on these recordings. Also, you can hear the change coming through with I Wanna Be Adored, Here It Comes and All I Want. This Is The One was written in the studio whilst recording, what was to be the album, and proved to be the beginning of a real change. Haddock is just some of Martin Hannett's feedback''. Haddock is the 'odd one out', the title is play on the phrase 'Red Herring'.
See February 1996 - Garage Flower for more information regarding the 'Official' release. The Stone Roses did not authorise the release. The story goes that Andy Couzens and Silvertone Records released the material. Andy Couzens also wrote the songwriting credits for the release, including himself in several credits. The album credits Just a Little Bit, Mission Impossible as written by 'Squire/Brown/Couzens' Andy thought the royalties would be unfair towards the bands composition writing process, despite not including Reni or Peter in the credits on the release.

1985 December - Garage Flower, Mixing Sessions
Notes: Martin Hannett produced album. The mixing sessions apparently continued into early 1986, although the tape above states the album was mastered in 1985. The band decided not to release the album due to their preference over new material and sound.
In 1991, after Martin's death, Ian Brown would buy 16 Martin Hannett 'Garage Flower' Session Tapes from Strawberry Studios. Apparently, it was Andy Couzens' 'best' mixes which would later appear on the official 'Garage Flower' album release, although Ian Brown and Steve 'Adge' Atherton had the masters.

1985 - The Hungry Young Socks (Sox) split.
Notes: Clint went to join Inspiral Carpets. Mani went to work. Chris Goodwin went to T Challa Grid, Asia Fields and eventually Andy Couzens' The High.